Guest Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I'd appreciate a bit of advice. I teach in a school Nursery and as a part of continuous provision, I let the children choose if they wish to learn in or outside. this makes it necessary for one of us to be in inside and the other to be outside. I plan it so one week I'm outside, the next week it is one of my part time TAs. We swop as necessary to complete tasks or as things crop up. Today the one TA refused to go outside for more than half an hour. Saying the Union had said it was unreasonable in these weather conditions. I and the other TAs have all done this for the hour and a quarter required and have just put on extra layers to keep us warm. Is there really any allowance made by the unions? I doubt it, but want to check where I stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I don't know the union ins and outs or thoughts on this, but as a compromise how about sharing the outdoors in smaller chunks? One week in and one out sounds heavy going, and a little unfair........ one person could have a week of awful weather.... I am not sure if whilst it is cold if one day in and one out isn't harsh........ How about half a session? Just a thought. We don't designate a person outside........ with only two of us we go with the flow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Thanks for your views. I do give a lot of leeway and am often the one outside depending on the task. Both the inside and outside person has a teaching activity, so it makes sense for them to complete the task for assessment/continuity. It would be a pain to try and pick up the threads halfway through. Everyone else seems happy with this and I have been out in much colder weather than today. You just dress appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Is there really any allowance made by the unions? I doubt it, but wan to check where I stand. If it were one of my staff members I would ask them to back this up - if there are 'rules' laid down by unions or whoever else they should be in writing somewhere. What does her job description say? Is this a sudden change or has she always been reluctant to go outside? If it is a sudden thing I'm wondering if she's feeling unwell - but if its a general thing then you have a more difficult problem. With one staff member refusing to go outside it can be very demoralising on the team because everyone else will need to spend more time outside to comensate. I'd be having an informal chat to begin with to find out what the problem is - and if she can back up her claims then you will obviously need to adapt your planning to suit. If she is just using the 'union' card as a way of getting out of going outside without tackling a deeper problem then you might need more formal conversations to find out what is really going on. Good luck - I'll watch this thread with interest! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Thanks, apparantly she's always refused to go outside on less good days and used to get away with it. I don't think it's fair on the other staff or the children to limit access because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Thanks, apparantly she's always refused to go outside on less good days and used to get away with it. I don't think it's fair on the other staff or the children to limit access because of it. So that's what has changed then: she's workikng with someone who is more pro-active about outdoor play and expects her to play her part! Tricky situation - good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 we have 2 staff members out each session - depending on children outside they take in turns usually works ok ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 i too shall be watching this thread with interest. I work in Reception but have the same sort of problem - myself and my TA alternate days outside and we go out each day in all weathers (well I do anyway!) Most days are fine but if the weather isn't looking great my Ta will say - do you want me outside/stall for time before going out and I have to say please can you go outside now .. I find myself going out instead some days at the expense of the activity I have planned to do inside just to make a point which is silly really - and it is usually only me out there with them in the rainy weather - which the children love being outside in! It can be annoying because as someone else said I plan for inside and outside and when no one is out there I feel like my time has been wasted! - Ok rant over now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hi I have been reading you threads with interest. When I worked as a T.A i had a lovely relationship with the teacher i worked with But if she asked me to do something or arrange a task or spend time outside I it just did it as part of my job and meeting the needs of the children. I know we all work together for the common goal but I saw it that the teaher lead the way and I followed FI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 It's sad really because you can have so much fun outside and the children get really absorbed in what they are doing, but I need to work inside with them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 These posts have made me think about Ofsteds' 'focus' regards SEF, 'leadership and management'. One of the hardest tasks in early years. The comments have shown how mixed messages and lack of clarity of expectations isn't working too well. Some 'show by example' is good but at the end of the day, positions, responsibilities, roles of the job, clear expectations, when negotiation is acceptable and when to follow instruction, when to use initiative to meet job expectations needs to be made very clear here, this leadership style also needs to be fair but consistent. I suggest the staff all ensure they have warm coats. Just add without wanting to sound too 'dictatorial', at work, when 'liberties' were being taken by my staff, I would sometimes use my ex army husbands phrase "That was not a request". My staff quickly realised I wasn't asking them favours, I was expecting them to do their job. (which, might I add they were being paid for) This phrase wasn't used often,(and always said with a you know what I mean smile) but when it was said, it did actually evoke 'respect', for me as the leader. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublinbay Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 With the very cold weather we are having at the moment we take it in turns staying outside, about a half hour before we change over. Mind you if you're playing a vigorous game of football then you'd soon stay warm. I'm at that time in my life when I get a bit hot under the collar (and everywhere else!!) so I actually relish going outside to cool down. Hope you get your problem sorted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 i too shall be watching this thread with interest. I work in Reception but have the same sort of problem - myself and my TA alternate days outside and we go out each day in all weathers (well I do anyway!) Most days are fine but if the weather isn't looking great my Ta will say - do you want me outside/stall for time before going out and I have to say please can you go outside now .. I find myself going out instead some days at the expense of the activity I have planned to do inside just to make a point which is silly really - and it is usually only me out there with them in the rainy weather - which the children love being outside in! It can be annoying because as someone else said I plan for inside and outside and when no one is out there I feel like my time has been wasted! - Ok rant over now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Too much planning then! Only plan for inside or out then you are more able to follow children's interests - this is the EYFS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I would sometimes use my ex army husbands phrase "That was not a request". My staff quickly realised I wasn't asking them favours, I was expecting them to do their job. (which, might I add they were being paid for) Coming to a pre-school very near you MrsWeasley sometime soon! Thanks Peggy! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hi there! I know I'm only a student in placement doing NVQ 3 in a playgroup that I have been volunteering in for a year before starting my course, but ur post got me thinking and its also about time I started posting, so here it is!! I wonder how many hours you have the children for each day? My point being, can you adjust your plans so that you are all inside at the same time and then all go out together? My placement is in a playgroup which is in school grounds and beside us, in the same grounds, is the school's junior reception. We have a great relationship with the reception class and go on outings and also arrange to go on outside play with them at least once a week. Any outside time is planned so that everyone goes out together and no member of staff or child is left behind. Surely if you plan your outside time to involve all your children, your member of staff will have to accompany you, like it or not, because of the adult/child ratio requirements??!! As Peggy has already pointed out, your member of staff is being paid to do a job, whether or not she likes it is a different matter. I have been asked to lead singing, which I really dont like because I seriously cannot hold a tune and coming from a family of singers, I was continually reminded of this fact, but as it was pointed out to me after I had finished "Don't worry about your voice, our kids would put you on X-Factor!!" And before anybody asks I didn't protest or complain when I was asked, I just got on with the singing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I know I'm only a student in placement doing NVQ 3 in a playgroup that I have been volunteering in for a year before starting my course, but ur post got me thinking and its also about time I started posting, so here it is!! Firstly mummyspud - you're not 'just' a student. You're a level 3 student with experiences and a valuable opinion to express! Hope you feel suitably chastised! I know what you mean about having to do things that take you out of your comfort zone - and its nice to know they appreciate your singing even if you don't! Has Simon Cowell been in touch yet? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsWeasley Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I have been asked to lead singing, which I really dont like because I seriously cannot hold a tune A bit off subject but did it go alright?! Mrs Weasley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Happymaz I consider myself well and truly chastised!!!! Can you hear me slapping myself?? As far as Simon Cowell goes, well I did apply but he thought I was far too good for the show and would put everbody else to shame. I wouldn't wanna upstage them! Mrs Weasley thank you for asking. It went OK, better than I thought. I didnt realise how weak my singing voice was until I had to lead the singing and you could actually hear my voice trembling, but I kept a smile on my face and the children joined in and thats what counts. To my surprise nobody put their hands in their ears and no glasses broke! I have vowed to overcome this, even if it is just in front of the children. I know we all have our strengths and our weaknesses when it comes to certain activities and I consider my strengths to be story telling, outside play and general conversation with the kids. I have been told I have good answers and explain things in a way they can understand. I put that down to raising a very intelligent 6 year old, who once he started talking wanted to know the how and why of everything and did not and still doesn't finish the questions until he has been told everything I know myself!!! The only thing I havent told him the truth about yet, is where babies come from. He thinks they float up around in the sky with God, a bit like a balloon! As to how you have babies, its special magic that only god and the doctor knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Too much planning then! Only plan for inside or out then you are more able to follow children's interests - this is the EYFS!!! Whilst very aware of the EYFS as i said I work in a reception class and the pressure on me as a reception teacher is that the children have to hve acheived certain things by the time they leave me. I try to plan for indoors and outside (as loosly as possible) so the children have access to both areas whilst also trying to achieve the things senior mangement impose upon us. Its a tricky business and sometimes feel like am stuck between a rock and a hard place but know could manage easier if wasnt battling with other staff to be outside xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I did take a hard line and I was informed by her, that the union said it was unreasonable to expect her to go outside. I can't believe this and need to find out. As for all the children going outside at the same time, that's fine if they choose to, but under continuous provision we are supposed to let them decide where they want to learn and what they want to do. (within reason) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I get frustrated with my staff not going outside, even when I've asked them to. But on cold and wet days if they want to come in after half an hour they canask to swap with someone and it does work quite well. I do say to them if they were running around with the children they wouldn't be cold, instead of standing around chatting with their hands in their pockets!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Hello My hubby is also in the army maybe we can adopt there aaproach with staff and bring in there terminology and every thing will work well lol. When i worked in a nursery and we ahd the same problem with staff being outside in the winter I brought thnem all hats ans scarves and set example s of how to keep warm. It is a difficult problem . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Gosh I wish you'd posted that earlier, I could have given them as Christmas gifts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Gosh I wish you'd posted that earlier, I could have given them as Christmas gifts! From the girls at work I got a pair of leather gloves and lovely scarfe to match my new coat. Do you think they're trying to tell me something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Looks like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 it hard isnt it - i try to tell staff members (2 on duty outside at all times) that if ratios allow to take it turns - so they are only out for 15 mins at a time - dosnt work though! nightmare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 it hard isnt it - i try to tell staff members (2 on duty outside at all times) that if ratios allow to take it turns - so they are only out for 15 mins at a time - dosnt work though! nightmare If the ratio's don't allow then that means quite a few number of children can 'manage' the weather, so why can't the staff! (say's me who sits indoors in the warm and lets hubby do all the dog walks if there is just the slightest hint of rain, but then he doesn't pay me ) Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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