Paid/unpaid Training

[Rea]

Hi, I need some feedback on how training is dealt with in pre-schools. I have asked our chair for a standardised pay system when staff go on courses and she has said that it all depends on finances, which is fair enough, but are'nt we entitled to pay? At the moment they will pay our wages if the course falls on a day that we would normally be open but if its on a Monday (when the pre-school is shut) we dont necessarily get paid, (again there is no hard and fast rule here). Before I demand our money I'd like to hear how other pre-schools do it. Not only for training but also paperwork, shopping, preparing activities etc...Thanks

[Beau]

Hi Rea,

 

There seems to be a huge difference between groups as to what is and isn't paid for. When I took over running playgroup last year I drew up a contract with the committee which laid it all out but my present committee didn't like the terms of it and changed it. Apparently they can do this and I have no say in it.

 

Currently I am paid for the playgroup session, 3/4 hr before and after for putting all the equipment out and clearing away at the end, plus an hour a session for planning, preparation and paperwork. (I work on my own so its really hard work to get everything done by myself.) I get 4 weeks paid holiday and am required(by the council) to go on 2 training sessions a year for which I am paid for my time. I had a real fight to keep these terms I can tell you. The committee now do all the shopping and washing as I refused to do them as I already put in a huge number of unpaid hours and they were being really picky about the hours they did have to pay me.

[Guest]

We are paid for training as follows: if it is a morning training we get our usual session pay (whether or not we usually work on that day). If it is an all day training we get a flat rate of £10 for the afternoon. We do receive just under £300 a year from Early Years to cover supply funding.

 

We are paid for a certain amount of work done outside pre-school hours. But in the Supervisor's case (that's me!!!) not nearly enough . I do most of the shopping and don't get paid for my time on this. Obviously I can normally incorporate it into my own shopping time but now and then I have to make a special trip to shops and spend money parking the car to buy something for pre-school but there you go.

 

Unfortunately, if pre-schools were to pay all their staff a good rate of pay for every hour worked, they would probably all go bust!!!

 

:wacko: :rolleyes:

[hali]

Hi

I am the superviser and get paid differently from the other members of staff.

They get paid per session that they work plus 4 wks holiday per year.

I get paid a yearly salery divided into 12 mths per year.

 

All staff that go on training courses get paid if they are supposed to be working on that day but not if they arnt.

And yes i put in alot of work hours at home unpaid as we all seem to have too!!!

[Alison]

its alwasy difficult for a group to find funding for staff cover other than that which is covered by normal sessions simply because of the usual tight budget

 

alot of playgroups only pay per sessions worked and some will pay for training as a session worked, my group doesnt have to budget to pay normal wages let alone training sessions but we do try to make some token guesture to encourage staff to go and train.

 

our EYDCP does provide funding for training in order to cover the cost of wages

for instance - if I am on the rota to work monday mornings and go to a training day, then the EYDCP will pay the wages of a supply member of staff to work at playgroup while I am at the training this is so that playgroup can continue to pay me my normal session wage but however this only covers my normal working hours (which are mornings) there would be no funding for the afternoons training from the EYDCP.

Its worth checking out if you area has any kind of staff cover funding? half a days wage is better than nothing. I can only assume that not all EYDCP's have this funding?

[Rea]

Hi thanks for the replies...looks like it's a situation of 'grin and bear it', for now at least, will have to tell tony blair, he'll be interested!

[hali]

[Guest]

Every group seems to do it differently.

 

We are open 4 days a week. If we are asked/volunteer to do a short course on one of our normal working days (we don't all do 4 days), we get paid working time (plus mileage) - if it is not a normal working day, we don't get paid ..... except if it is whole group training on a Friday (when we are not open), in which case, we all get paid. Not logical, but it is the system.

 

I am doing the EYFD. Nothing to do with the setting. But they are getting supply cover funding for me, so that I can do my course, without losing pay (they can pay someone else to cover for me). No logical rhyme or reason, but they deduct 10% from what they pay me. I have asked why. Committee says that other people are helping me, and there are costs involved (what costs?). I asked for assurance that these "other people" (I cannot imagine who) are recieving the 10%. I still have no answer.

 

Training funding is a very grey area. Obviously, we practitioners have to be grateful for training opportunities, but personal development is never the primary reason for doing it. Let's put it like this to Mr. Blair.

 

Diane.

[Gezabel]

I agree it seems that settings do things differently!

 

I think the benefit of training courses is twofold. We gain personally from attending courses and the setting gains from our new found whatever we gain from the course.

 

I work part time and if a course falls on a day I work I get paid as normal. If it falls on a non working day I dont get paid BUT I don't HAVE to attend courses, it is my choice to do so.

 

When I did my SENCO training they all fell on non working days so I did not get paid a penny. My setting gains as they now have a SENCO but I gained as I did the course. If I leave, I take it with me and they have to get someone else to train and take over the role!

 

Personally I would not want to be paid for course I do in my own time as I would feel obligated to reimburse if I leave! SIx of one and half a dozen of the other maybe but it works well in our setting

[Guest]

I pay staff for short courses taken up in time they would normally be working and if it falls in the afternoon when we are not open. So our SENCO was paid for time attending a SENCO training afternoon. The only courses I don't pay wages for are things like DPP or NVQ as we just couldn't afford it as they are long term. All of my staff have had their qualification training paid for them by our EYDCP so don't mind attending in the evenings and not being paid.

Linda

[hali]

Hi geraldine

 

Thats what my staff do...the committee wont pay for them to go on a course if they dont work that day.

So i say to them dont go on the course unless they want too...luckily for me they always do

[Guest]

I am trying, trying, trying to do Child Protection training.

 

 

I feel I need it. Our EY Partnership is always overbooked for it. I have been on the waiting list so many times over the last five years that I have now lost count!

 

I am going to approach other agencies, and pay for my own training if needs be.

 

I just hope that this sort of initaitive counts when my "primary" qualification is being ignored.

 

Diane.

[hali]

Hi Dianne

 

So am i the only thing Ofsted picked me up on but i cannot get on a course all booked up

[Guest]

The local child protection committee is presumably providing our local training. I imagine that the situation is the same elsewhere. I assume that it must be possible to access this same training by other routes (i.e. not via the local EYCD partnership). Does anyone know?

 

Diane.

[Guest]

There are details of some distance learning courses on Child Protection on the nspcc website: www.nspcc.org.uk . I expect they will be expensive though!

[Gezabel]

I did the NSPCC "Child PRotection Awareness course" it cost £25 and I did it about a year or so ago.

 

Very basic, the only thing I learned was that there are 4 types of abuse and I thought there were only 3! but you do get a pretty certificate, sufficient to satisfy OFsted.

 

It's a case of four modules to read and mutiple choice questions to answer, post it back and they send you the results.

 

Oh and the "modules" each consist of 2 sheets of A4 - not time consuming at all!

[Guest]

Surely your local Early Years provide this course?Am really surprised if they do not.Get on to them and ask!You should not be paying for your own training especially one as important as this .

[Guest]

Geraldine

You say your postal child protection kept OFSTED quiet but I've been told it is not classed as a suitable top up for my NNEB. Were OFSTED quite happy with it ?????

Because if thats the case I'll be fighting it for my cause as well.

[Guest]

We have a real problem with child protection courses as they are always over subscribed. I did part one of our local EYDCP training and then couldn't access part two as all the courses were full. I think most areas offer the courses but can't provide enough places.

Linda

[Guest]

Surrey EYDCP provide regular Child Protection courses which are free (all their other courses are £5.00). We have always managed to get on them. We have now stated in our Child Protection policy that staff will renew their C.P. training every two years in order to keep up-to-date.

 

Perhaps Surrey is an exception. If so, it's a pity that other EYDCPs around the country can't offer this important service.

[hali]

We get our courses free like Linda says but they are very over subscibed so it is difficult to get on them all the time

[Sue R]

It's really difficult to get on CP courses in Notts, too. All the local EYDCP courses are free in this area, which is quite useful, and we mostly get funding for cover if they are fullday courses.

 

Sue

[Guest]

It does seem to be a problem. As Ofsted put so much importance on all staff having C.P. training, perhaps the EYDCPs in the different areas could put on extra training sessions to ensure all the staff in the settings in their areas get the training. I realise of course that the main problem (as always) is the cost of these things.

[Dahlia]

I am currnetly doing my NVQ3 and we had to do a CP course.

There were others on the CP course who were not doing the NVQ, it might be an idea to try to get in touch with someone from your local college, (who do the NVQ) to see if they have space on a course.

[Sue R]

Good point, Catherine

Have we crossed paths before? Don't think so - Hi!!

 

Sue

[Dahlia]

Hi Sue.

 

*waves

[Gezabel]

Sorry Hotgoss onlyjust seen your question!

 

When Mrs Ofsted was checking qualifications she went through the staff profiles which contain all certificates etc when she came to my pretty green CP one my boss explained that she had done the course recently and was waiting for her certificate and Mrs Ofsted said "That's fine!"

 

I have just looked on the certificate and it says that I have "Successfully completed the child protection awareness programme"

 

To be honest I was a little surprised she said it was OK but then I got sidetracked by the comments on my NNEB (old outdated, worthless you know the one!)

[Guest]

I know how you all feel our committee have now just decied that they cant afford to pay us for going on any sort of courses, which i think is terrible because if its useful to your job then you should be paid for this, it can only mean you work better have a better knowledge etc which makes your setting better surley?! The only thing we get paid for now is to do the shopping once a week, which they pay us a hours pay at whats ever rate you are on a hour.

 

They have even told me now that i have to try and do the paper side of been the co-ordinator in a session. So they are asking me to do what i need to do and not spend any time with the children, which i think is also unfair.

 

I do agree with what a couple of you have said though if they was to pay us for everything we did we wouldnt be in our jobs now they would be bust. My setting is also a 'charity' which makes things even worse.

[hali]

so is ours Zara ...all in the same boat unfortunatly