queline Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hi everyone, apologies if this has already been discussed and also probably a basic question... I'm an NQT in a mixed FS and Year 1 class. I've just put my entry assessments onto the EProfile and am confused on two things... 1) Do the children have to complete the stepping stones in order (surely not??) For example I have a child who can't dress and undress independently DA 4 but can select activities and resources independently DA5, this confuses me. 2) Also I have been working on the basis that we need to observe the child display the objective 3 times before i can say they are at that level, what if i've observed the child 3 times but i don't have actual observation evidence? I know they can do it but just haven't had the pportunity to write out detailed observation? I hope this makes sense and someone can help me as it's giving me a headache! Sorry if it sounds basic but as an NQT i have no experience of filling in the profile. Thanks Jackie xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 First of all, welcome! I don't think I've said hello before Now, I'm not even a teacher, but from what I've gathered (and there has been LOTS of discussion of this here- try a forum search) professional judgment is acceptable as well as obs - am I right, you teachers?? And, in my understanding of the FS, it's perfectly normal/acceptable for children to achieve stepping stones as and when it's appropriate for them!! So, no, they aren't necessarily hierarchical. (well, in my world - ) And I'm sure a real teacher will be along soon! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queline Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 First of all, welcome! I don't think I've said hello before Now, I'm not even a teacher, but from what I've gathered (and there has been LOTS of discussion of this here- try a forum search) professional judgment is acceptable as well as obs - am I right, you teachers?? And, in my understanding of the FS, it's perfectly normal/acceptable for children to achieve stepping stones as and when it's appropriate for them!! So, no, they aren't necessarily hierarchical. (well, in my world - ) And I'm sure a real teacher will be along soon! Sue Hi Sue, Thank you. Not at all I have a fantastic NVQ qualified TA who works with my Foundation, i'm ashamed to say probably knows a lot more than me on this issue! I'm a little embarassed to ask her though...also don't want to bother her on half term. I really can't believe they are hierachical but then they are obviously mainly in progressive order and the eprofile doesn't seem to be happy with me when I leave gaps!! Also opps, i've just seen there's an eprofile thread! Thanks again! xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 No prob!! Have fun - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hi there Jackie, if Ive not welcomed you before, then welcome. Sue is quite right, the points can be achieved in any order, however, the first 3 points which are stepping stones rather than ELGs are usually (but not always) achieved first. Dont worry about the eprofile telling you there are gaps, this is quite usual but shouldn't actually prevent you from putting in your data. In terms of evidence, you mustn't collect evidence for every point for every child, just think how much evidence you would need! Many of the points are based on professional judgment, talking into account any TA you work with and their experience of the child. I hope that as an NQT you are getting your non contact time and are being supported by a mentor, they should be able to help you so that you don't tie yourself up in knots. I hope that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I said a real teacher would come along!! Hope I helped fill the gap Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hello Queline! You are quite right that the points are not hieracial a child could, as you've discovered, achieve point 5 without having achieved 4. However you will find that they are quite often achieved in order. Therefore a child could have achieved '6' points but ticked the boxes 1 2 3 4 6 7, for example. However a child can not achieve '9' without having secured all of the previous 'points' first ( e profile won't let you do this) this is because '9' is considered beyond the ELG's so a child has to achieve all of these first. I have re read the above and realise it sounds a bit confusing!!! if you have any questions please ask!! ps have you got the most update version of e profile ( version 2.5) ? it has the reworked ELG's on it and other updated features Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queline Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thank you everyone, that helps a lot! I'm in a really supportive school, but it's a tiny village school where no one has experience of the Foundation Stage or the eProfile! So sometimes it is hard to know that i'm doing the right thing... So, again going to sound silly...if i make a professional judgement for example that a child has attained Shape, Space and Measures 6 but don't have observational evidence for this, if i were to be moderated, which i've been told as an NQT i will be this year. How do i prove my judgement? I've been sticking quite religiously to observing the objective 3 times before i tick it off, is this how you all do it? Hope that makes sense, just want to be really clear in my head that im doing the right thing xx I have version 2 i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Hi and welcome Do check that you have the up to date version, there have been some wording changes and changes in the way the eprofile works over time. You will be able to transfer your data to the most up to date version if necessary. I understand your concerns but you are also able to make professional judgements from what you know about the child too although at this stage of the school year I would not be making many of those within points 4-8. You may not always see something happening if the child has already moved beyond that. You should be able to get some support with your LEA, perhaps there are cluster meeting that you can attend, or your advisor will come and talk to you. Do not be afraid to ask for help or clarification if you are unsure. Also check which areas of the profile are being moderated this year, Im not teaching at the moment and have lost track of the sequence but that will help you track what evidence you need exactly although you should of course have a range across all areas. (It was PSE and K&U last school year, so not those this year unless your LEA is out of step for some reason). Im sure you will be doing a good enough job, dont beat yourself up about this as there is still loads of time to get it right! Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Susan - we did PSE and K&U last year, and I'm pretty sure it's CLL and CD this year. Good luck queline, and welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luluj Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Welcome from me too. Thanks you for 'top tip' to update profile.Didn't realise I could do that and had contacted DCFS.Should have known to ask the real experts here first! luluj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tinkerbell Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Hi queline welcome Good advice as usual from everyone on here. The average child at the end of the Foundation year reaches point 6-7 so be careful if you are filling in these points at this stage, unless of course your children are whizz kids! The e-profile will show progression which is good to show management as to the progress the children are making, I find it slows down as the year moves on and the statements have 4 or 5 elements in them which the children need to get the point.Some half terms I can't add any points in areas because they are so complex I would have some evidence eg a moderation folder with examples,photographs of some children achieving the point rather than go with gut feeling on something like shape, becuse a photo or piece of recorded work or post it comment would be good evidence if you are moderated by your LEA. There is a moderating section on the forum which has examples could be woth a look. Tinkerbellx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Thanks harricroft, now I'm really looking forward to my January class!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queline Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 Brilliant everybody. Thank you so much for all of your help. That reassures me as I think i'm on the right track. I am keeping an achievement file which focusses on a selction of observations and photographic evidence of the children, but i will find out from the LA which particular areas are being moderated this year as i didn't realise this was how it was done... Thank you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Dear all Did you realise that the update version of the e profile has examples ( from original profile folder-manual) built in. If you hover over the words for each point it should work.......v helpful when feeling a bit brain dead! The 'new' updated profile booklets (for this year only) are also available to order now ( as they're not automatically distributed) if you like to have a document to refer to manually. The updated ( amended ELG) profile pages are also available..........but only valid for this acedemic year Hope the above is of help! Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Thanks for that Lisa. As I havent a class or a job this term I havent got that far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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