Nneb's Retraining

[Guest]

Arrgh!!! so me being half way through the new Certificate in Early Years Practice (level4) may be unnecessary!!

 

The whole reason for me doing it was through supposed accurate advice that said my NNEB was virtually worthless due to it's age.

 

I have updated my knowledge over the years (oh and working in early years of course carries no weight to the argument) and have enough certificates that specify I have attended courses on everything and anything. I even paid £25 to do the NSPCC child protection course - that got me a pretty green certificate. If it's evidence they want I have it!

 

I am now sooooooooo frustrated with the relevant powers that be giving conflicting advice. Mmmm who shall I write to? I feel a rant coming on so best be off....!!!!

geraldine my name is debbie and i am interested in the fact that you are doing a certificate in early years practise. How are you finding it and is it worth it. thankyou

[Guest]

Right people are starting to get replies from their MPs , one woman on a different website had one today saying that he was concerned that after 15 years experience she was being told that she had to do a level 3 qualification and that her fax was going to be sent to the secretary of state education !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My website www.freewebs.com/fedupnnebs has now got a message board so please post on it , you don't need to put in your e.mail address and if you can print off the homepage and circulate it to local pre-schools it would really be appreciated , print it off in landscape otherwise some of the words don't come out.

Thanks again

[Gezabel]

Sorry Timmy only just seen your message!

 

I am actually doing the foundation degree in early years with the open university.

 

I did one course last year and am in the middle of doing two more at the moment!

 

The two courses that make up the level 4 are E123 and E124. E123 was new last year and E124 had its first presentation commence in Feb this year. Yes, I am enjoying it just wish I had chosen to do it myself rather than feel I had no choice but to update qualifications.

 

If you go to the OU website you will find details of all courses but if i can help further just give me a shout

[Guest]

Two more people have got replies from their MP's , have spent today e.mailing as many pre-schools and nurseries as possible letting them know of the situation

If it doesn't get us anywhere it won't be for the lack of trying

[Guest]

I am an NNEB from many years ago far more I am sure than any of you!!Although I am no longer manager after 15 years am working in a preschool, now working as a supervisor one day a week and a assisant for two,having a lovely time playing with the children!!!I have been offered lots of jobs because of my knowlege and experience and as yet no one has told me I have to retrain.I have no intention of doing it.I keep up to date with lots of courses,I love them!!

Have written to my mp and have had a card saying he will contact me shortly!!

[Gezabel]

Maybe this sounds like sour grapes on my part but I really don't mean it to!!

 

I just wish I could have been left alone with my "out of date" qualifications, my 25 years (argh no its nearer 30!!!) of experience and toddling off to these wonderful courses, that I Want to go to and keep me up to date.

 

Sadly, that for me, was categorically not the case! It was either retrain if you want to continue as Deputy or work as an assistant.

 

this whole issue seems to be more and more dependant on where you are as to whether you are OK or not. I have been told I cannot work as deputy in my pre-school without a level 3 qualification and my manager (who is superb and has more experience than me) cannot run it without level 3. Hence we are both mid way through further training.

 

I still await a reply from my MP but he holds local surgeries once a month for constituents so I will be first in the queue at the next one!

 

Someone somewhere needs to make a decision urgently on this and it surely has to be across the board and not vary from area to area.

 

There must be an awful lot of practitioners receiving conflicting advice which can't be good. Instead of studying myself silly I could be using the time to plan fun things for the children.

 

Soory don't mean to moan but its sooooooo frustrating!!

[Guest]

Geraldine,

 

Like you, I'm doing the OU certficicate (then on to the rest for the FD, hopefully).

 

I'm doing it because I don't have any formal qualifications.

 

The courses are making me look at what I am doing, consolidating my experience, making me reflect on what I am doing. It is a way to get my experience recognised. A way of getting a qualification that is comensurate with my experience.

 

My group is not supporting me on my training (I am doing it of my own accord). They see no need for me to be trained, but I feel the need.

 

To me, it does seem silly that people like you are doing it. You are experienced on top of your previous training (and presumably have had ongoing, updating, training all the time you have been working).

 

What I don't understand is that a level 3 qualification is a requirement for embarking on E123 and E124. I don't have a level 3 (or anything , for that matter), but the OU, luckily for me, are flexible on this.

 

If someone (level 3 or above) is running a pre-school, supervising, doing the right things, E123 may be a bit like teaching grandmother to suck eggs. Or am I wrong?

 

As a qualified and experienced practitioner, will E123 and E124 change the way you work? I know that my approaches are changing but I am only building on experience. and not on previous training.

 

Most of my fellow OU students that I am in close contact with are TA's in primary reception classes. I don't know of anyone else at assistant level in a pre-school setting who is going down the OU route.

 

Government-initiated training is a strange situation. It will benefit me, because I haven't done antything previously. I can't see how the initiative will benefit children overall when qualified and experienced practitioners are being forced into it.

 

Diane (rambling again).

[Gezabel]

Hi Diane

 

Glad to hear the OU were flexible and allowed you to do the course. You sound such an ideal practitioner and I am so sorry you are getting no support with your trainng.

 

E123 was a bit of a breeze for me. I was writing assignments on topics I was familiar with especially the one on observations! I have been doing them for years and knew about all the different types and various reasons for observations. I did enjoy the course and it is a subject so close to my heart. My marks for the course reflected the knowledge and experieince I already had. I did learn whilst studying, I didn't know too much about schemas or reggio emilia but no it hasnt really changed my practice. It also made me reflect on my practice - I am quite good at being self critical but not so good at recognising my strengths but thats just me, I always want to do things better! The one I really did benefit from was the tma where we had a choice and I opted for "Child Protection" that was a bit of an eye opener and resulted in us amending our policy. I had already done the NSPCC course child protection awareness so was keen to go into it in more depth.

 

With E124 with planning for inclusion - we have been doing this for ages so its just a case of putting it in writing! with relevant evidence and reference to the study topics. We have practiced differentiation for I don't know how long. I think it is quite an emotive subject and I have spoken to many people and found varying views both for and against inclusion. I had some children recently who were threading beads and due to the difference in age and ability some had huge beads and enormous laces and others had tiny laces and beads so small you could hardly see them but they were all interacting, threading away and having a lovely time. I did not specifically plan this as an "nclusive activity" just the usual way of using differentiation but was told it would be an ideal activity to focus on for my tma. I don't for a second think I know it all by any means there will always be new ideas and new ways of doing things but looking at such a basic activity and then all this reflecting and analysing etc etc does seem a bit much sometimes. I do get concerned about the emphasis on planning - though of course it is important. I think spontaneous activities often child initiated can be just as beneficial for the children as the detailed planned ones with all the learning intentions specified.

 

I am also heading for the degree and am doing E243 alongside E124 and that is a different ball game altogether!! It is solely about Inclusive Education and is a level 2 course and sooooo different from level 1!!

 

I have just sent my first tma off and wait with baited breath for its return!! The presentation is different, no specific details like 123 and 124, no pretty folder full of study topics just a series of 5 readers and very brief guide for the tma requirements! It starts with the history of education and the progression towards inclusion. I have found it fascinating, though hard going at times. All about conceptual frameworks, the different models for representing diversity and the associated discourses !(mmmm!!!)

 

I really don't think my approach has changed - perhaps a bit of tweaking here and there though!! Overall I am enjoying the course, just would have liked to make the decision to study it as a personal choice rather than being told "retrain or else!" I will be chuffed to get (hopefully!!) the Certificate in Early Years Practice at the end of E124.

 

What I do not understand is that this certificate, awarded after two courses is a level 4. If you carry on and do all the others and get the degree that is also a level 4!!

 

Again, confusion on qualifications. Two level 4's with very different levels of study and practice!!

 

Oh well, I am rambling now!!

[hali]

will ask my Ofsted inspector tomorrow about my NNEB qualification... not sure i want to hear the answer though!!!!!!

[Gezabel]

Good luck for your inspection Hali - sure you will be fine.

 

I really hope you get a postive answer from your inspector. We had ours in February and we didn't ask but she picked up on it when she asked to see staff appraisals, records and qualifications. Even though two of us are half way through a level 4 qualification we were marked down and only got the dreaded "satisfactory"

 

Would love to hear what her answer is when you have time.

[Guest]

Hi! Just to add fuel to the fire, we had our combined inspection in January 04 and our inspector was happy with all our qualifications, including a pre 1989 nneb, and an old-style PLA Diploma which I'm fairly sure would inspire the same debate as the nneb one.

Hali - you do a fantastic job and will sail through ofsted - go for it girl!

[Gezabel]

Oh! Lisa lucky you

 

It also confirms my theory of this re-training issue varying from area to area.

 

The irony for us is that we got one "satisfactory" and that was for staff qualifications. Everything else was wonderful and the inpsector said she was scraping the barrel to find any criticisms. Old and out of date qualifications maybe but yet doing a great job! [i](couldn't possibly be experience related could it??!!)[/I]

[hali]

thank you Lisa

[bubblejack]

Good Luck tomorrow Hali. I shall be interested to hear what Ofsted think about your qualification. Lisa I have an out of date PLA diploma. My inspector couldn't even make a decision on mine. I have 25 years of "updated experience".At least you know where you stand now.

[Guest]

Look forward to hearing your reply Hali, hope you got on ok today.

I have heard from a supervisor with 15 years experience ( not sure what qualifications she's got ) and she is being told by OFSTED that as long as she stays in her group then she is ok but if she wants to move groups she will be expected to retrain in everything.

I was also told that if I moved to a different group I would have to retrain , but I put this to the test and rang five day nurseries asking their opinions, three of them said they would look at me more favourably than someone with a new qualification !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hali]

hi

 

Inspector asked me about my qualifications today said im NNEB, (held my breathe),and she that was great.

I asked her about retraining and she said she had never heard of anything so silly. Her exact words were "what would we do if we sent all NNEBs back to train - who would run our pre schools?"

 

she did ask if i knew which areas were having this problem so that she could go back to Ofsted and find out why. as she said there shouldnt be areas making discrepancys about the qualifcation.

[hali]

hi

 

Inspector asked me today about my qualification, i held my breathe and said NNEB, her reply was great.

 

i then asked her about the descepancies in different areas about the NNeb and her reply was it was nonsence if they sent all NNebs back to college to retrain who would run pre schools. She did ask though if i knew which these problem areas were so that she could go back to Ofsted and get it sorted.

 

So if Hotgrass or anyone else can let me asasp which areas i can tell her in the morning.

 

[hali]

Ps

 

sorry for doing it 2x and for spelling.... been a stressful day

[Guest]

Well done, bouncing hali - that's one point to the good guys!

 

Hope tomorrow goes well.

 

Diane.

[bubblejack]

I'm glad all was well for you today. Could you please ask your inspector if the old style P.L.A. diploma (foundation) is O.K. I have 25 years of continuous experience. Many thanks.

[Guest rhodessj]

Hi Halli & Others

 

Glad to hear inspections are going well. Its too late for your chat, but our area is one that is saying retraining is neccessary to move on - we're in Cambridgeshire; although very close to the boundary with Norfolk so we have lots of cross-border initiatives going on and I think C&E are involved in that... The PLA is Peterborough & Cambridge and they are not committing precisely, but hinting that retraining is neccessary!

 

Anyway, from the point of view of a DPP in training with a mere 5years experience as a parent and 3years experience in Pre-School.

 

Some of the staff in my setting qualified 10/11years ago and they may have learned lots of observation techniques, but they certainly do not use them. They rely on a cross between snippets & narratives - they do not accurately record language (in terms of mis-pronunciation) - although I'm sure they would say something if they picked up on a child with speech difficulties(?) They do not work in an inclusive way as far as the other (less well-trained) staff are concerned; and overall have let their standards slip a bit... For instance we have a child in the group at present who is quite advanced in her speaking skills; this child has an elderly relative in hospital and somebody has been talking to her about germs (in particular MRSA!!!); she has developed an aversion to having her snack and drink with us. At first she just said she didn't want to get germs.

 

We have a Group snack time, at which all children sit together. Initially, the staff let her wander about (which is against group policy) when I was working, I spoke to the child and said that I understood she didn't want a snack or a drink, but would she please sit down with the other children? I explained that she was a "bigger girl" and that if I let her walk about and continue playing with the toys, then the smaller children would want to do it too. She sat down.

 

Next day the other staff have let her wander about again! Eventually, Mum decides to bring a drink & biscuit in from home (once again against policy, unless the child has a dietary need). The staff are OK with this, but the child decides she doesn't want to sit with the others, she wants to sit alone. What do the staff do? Set up a table for her on her own!!!!!

 

This sort of behaviour happens all the time. When child A wants to sit next to child B and there is no space - child A has a tantrum, the staff will move the other child!!!!!

 

We recently had a visit from a H&S inspector who had a "personal odour problem"; while we were giving out the children's coats (at the end of circle time) - one staff member said to another "I don't know about H&S, that woman stunk!!!) - a child I was giving a coat to said "thank's smelly!" - I challenged the child about his comment; but really it was the staff member who was at fault.

 

Apart from undermining me constantly, it goes against group agreed policies and against "real" policies such as inclusion.

 

My Leader has recently resigned for all sorts of reasons, but I do think some of these issues were down to a lack of strong Leadership (although some of them happened when she was not around). I don't feel I can challenge staff in front of the children, so I am as much to blame for letting it go.

 

Personally, I think these sort of people DO need to be exposed to re-training and be forced to examine their practices a little. Sadly for me, the training has done no more than reinforce my opinion that I am working in the wrong group!!!! I am desperate to go to one that is properly run...

 

Sorry to whinge on and even change the thread of this conversation, but really...

 

Sandra (who might have to change her name to a fictitious one if I keep finding things to moan about!!!!!!!)

[Guest]

I feel really sad that you feel like that about the staff in your setting, and sad and horrified that people may look at those of us who trained a few years ago as 'out of date has beans'

 

I know that there are many of us with older style qualifications who work in a professional and caring way. Many of us are keen to keep up with current news and new ideas, many of us have done extra training.Many of us continue to work for low pay, why because we believe in and enjoy what we do.

 

When you work in an environment where standards are not the best they could be, it's hard to rise above it/ fight against it. The example has to come from the leadership. Maybe it's time for you to find a supportive and quality provision that tries to get the best possible from all the staff.

 

Jo

[bubblejack]

Hello Rhodessi,

The staff in your your group did not qualify THAT long ago and if they did a recognised qualification it will not be out-of-date anyway. Even if they updated their qualifications it would not guarantee that they would run the group in a different way.I qualified 25 years ago and my deputy 15 years ago. I have other staff members that qualified within the last 5 years.I have a mum helper and a volunteer that are not qualified. Everyone has to follow the same guidelines. We take into account government legislation when we write the policies and procedures but they are just common sense.

If one of my staff didn't agree with something I said or did they would mention it to me and we would talk it through at the end of the session. If we all felt it necessary to change a certain procedure we would all have to follow it in fairness to all children and adults in the group.

[hali]

HI

we had a top of the range report from Ofsted today (im on cloud 9)

mY inspector said that my NNEB was fine.

she said that she would confirm but from Ofsted she had had not reports as long as we were going on regular training days!!!!!!

[Guest]

Congratulations and well done!

[Beau]

Well done! Now you can enjoy Easter without it hanging over you anymore.

[Helen]

Well done, Hali, that's great news Buy yourself that enormous Easter egg now!

[Gezabel]

Congratulations hope you are feeling chuffed to bits!!

 

 

The postman delivered "the envelope" today - the one marked "House of Commons"

 

My MP is 'most concerned' to hear of the confusion with regard to qualifications and retraining and is writing to the Secretary of State for Education forthwith to seek clarification!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He will contact me again when he receives a response.

 

It would just be nice to know once and for all!

[Guest]

Another lady has had a response from her MP saying he's very concerned about the confusion with old qualifications and hes sending her fax to the secretary of state education. He has been in to see this lady previously at her kindergarden and is planning another visit. She has asked for any questions and comments so she can pass them on !!!!!!!!!!!!! Get writing .

[Guest]

Good news, I'm still waiting to hear from Peter Ainsworth MP