Nneb's Retraining

[hali]

ok guys

 

dont really want to hear the answer to this BUT.......

 

if we are saying OLD NNEBS are down the drain..... what re- training qualification do you think we need to do to keep our positions as supervisors....

[Guest]

To be a supervisor you will need a level 3 qualification. So you are looking at an NVQ level 3, the Diploma in Pre-school Practice (DPP), or there are various vocationally related qualifications.

If you go to www.qca.org.uk/nq/subjects/childcare/early_years you will find the list of the qualifications accepted for early years education and childcare.

Hope this is of use

Linda

[bubblejack]

To Hali,

If you have been supervising for at least 3 years the A.P.E.L. Cache level 3 can be done in 12wks.

[Gezabel]

Just to letter you know there is an interesting letter in this weeks Nursery World from Richard Dorrance, the Chief Exec. of CACHE. He says "There is no need for someone to re-take their qualifications" but goes on to say that they do have to undertake training in certain areas: child protection theory, knowledge of the foundation stage, curriculum planning and special educational needs. Practitioners also need to be able to show they have done so.

 

His letter is in response to someone who previously wrote saying that anyone who qualified pre 1989 must requalify. My personal interpretation of what he is saying is that we don't need a new qualification as such but just need to be able to prove we have kept ourselves up to date. In my area we get offers of one day courses on every area you can think of and the offers arrive regularly.

I have lost count on the number I have attended and all are free with the exception of one - oops! no not quite! I paid £16 to attend one on speech and language difficulties and it was worth every penny. For all these courses we get a certificate. It is not a qualification at all just a pretty piece of paper saying I attended. Maybe this is the sort of 'proof' Mr Dorrance refers to??

 

I am rather confused by this as it was certainly not the message given to us at our recent inspection.

 

It is all to do with the Education Act that came into force in 1989 so perhps the powers that be assume those who qualified before this know nothing??!!

[Helen]

There also seems to be no distinction between someone who qualified as an NNEB before 1989 and has worked more or less ever since, and someone who qualified pre 1989 but has been away from early years for a large number of years, and is therefore a bit out of touch with new legislative requirements and current thinking on education, etc. It does seem ludicrous that someone with an NNEB who has attended a number of EYDCP or similar courses over the years, and continues to do so, should have to take any other qualification.

[Guest rhodessj]

Hi all

 

I work at a Pre-School with 5 staff members and three of them are qualified prior to 1999; so this is a burning issue. We have been told a variety of things - the most recent being that the need is to "top" up on certain areas. However, the fast-track DPP qualification does involve writing assignments - this might be a struggle for those who have been out of education for some time (and 10years older than they were!). We have enlisted the help of the Pre-School Learning Alliance Training Guidance Officer - he's come to the setting to talk to each affected member of staff, look through their qualifications and work through with each individual where they are lacking. Where they go next is still undecided, but the concensus is that if they remain in this setting they need not do anything. If they move jobs, their qualification may be unrecognised altogether.

 

We're getting the impression that some courses are more valuable than others; and it appears all those lovely two-hour workshops don't qualify.

 

The Guidance Officer is due back soon, if I hear any more from him I shall post a message. Not sure any of this helps the poor NNEBs though.

 

Sandra

[Guest]

I have personally spoken to Richard Dorrance on this subject only to be recommended by CACHE that I do a new level 3 qualification even after an article last year in Nursery world by him said you only need to 'top up' on one and two day courses ' in the areas mentioned in the first post. When I queried this I was told that CACHE recommend this level 3 qualification ( sorry can't remember what it was called, it was something like the CPD I will try and dig out my paperwork ) because they don't actually offer smaller courses !!

I have also been in regular contact with the department for education who have advised me to just 'top up' I am not a supervisor but work as a pre-school practioner so don't know if that makes a difference. The DFE are still telling me just to sit tight at the moment but go on as many short courses as possible , they are at the moment looking into the content of each older qualification and will be bringing out new guidelines ( but couldn't tell me when )

I have spoken to many people about this who all say there are many people in our position and the DFE said they don't want to lose people with our experience.

I wish CACHE , OFSTED ,PLA ,DFE etc etc would all get together and have a consistent answer to this problem as they have all told me different things. It also seems that it depends on what person you speak to in these departments to what answer you get.

I for one will fight this every step of the way. I was told by my employer that I would have to start right at the very beginning again I THINK NOT !!! I worked hard for my 'old ' NNEB and have 20 years experience under my belt. Experience teaches you things you just can't learn on a college course. When I think back to when I was newly trained and the way I am now there is no comparison. It annoys me so much when employers only want people with 'new pieces of paper' rather than a person with years of experience.

I have been told that the APEL course is going to be around £500 and is only valid for 3 years ( don't know how true that is )

I agree with the post that says there is no distinction between older style NNEB's who have stayed within the childcare field or those that have had long breaks , obviously I would expect people who have had long breaks to have to undertake more training.

There is also some confusion what top up courses are acceptable but I think again the DFE may be looking into this.

Also addressing the question that if people moved to a different setting their qualification may not be recognised at all , I was also told this and took the liberty of ringing round a few day nurseries and asked their honest advice , three out of the five said they would look at my qualification and experience more favourable than a person with a new level 3 qualification.

Look at the facts the DPP is done one day a week at college , the NNEB is done over two years full time including practical placements lets face it there is no comparison !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would be very interested in what other people are being told so keep posting !!! Answers at the moment range from having to completely retrain , everything is absolutely fine as it is or you need to top up , all I can say is what a shambles.

[hali]

WELL SAID HOTGRASS I AM IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH YOU

[Guest]

Can someone please clarify what year we are talking about as the cut off. Is it if you qualified before 1989/1988 that you may/may not have to do this extra training ? Or is it later than that ?

Ta

[bubblejack]

The magic year is 1989 for level 3. Apparently the course did not include several issues e.g curriculum planning, child protection. If we could find out the others and prove that we have had recognisable training in these areas. I don't feel there would be a need to update. Especially when experience is just as valuable as training-----or more so.

[Gezabel]

Arrgh!!! so me being half way through the new Certificate in Early Years Practice (level4) may be unnecessary!!

 

The whole reason for me doing it was through supposed accurate advice that said my NNEB was virtually worthless due to it's age.

 

I have updated my knowledge over the years (oh and working in early years of course carries no weight to the argument) and have enough certificates that specify I have attended courses on everything and anything. I even paid £25 to do the NSPCC child protection course - that got me a pretty green certificate. If it's evidence they want I have it!

 

I am now sooooooooo frustrated with the relevant powers that be giving conflicting advice. Mmmm who shall I write to? I feel a rant coming on so best be off....!!!!

[bubblejack]

Yes Geraldine I know how you feel I am feeling the same today.You have probably learnt lots of new ideas. The apel which I have nearly finished is just a review of all my current practices and values. I have gained nothing except I have a tidy cupboard because I have had to collate my lifetime of learning into a slim portfolio.

[hali]

I think ill just wait and see what my ofsted inspector says.....................

[Guest]

Let us know Hali won't you ?????

[hali]

yes definatley...

 

when they decide to turn up of course....

[Guest]

I really do feel for all of you have trained in the past and are now being told it isn't worth much.

 

I had another job before I came into early years (and I did both in parallel for a good while). Then a thing called CPE (continuing professional education) was introduced into pharmacy. It wasn't scary because it just meant that all our ongoing training meant something in terms of professional recognition (it was just the documenting that had changed, really).

 

It really is time that early years teaching caught up with other professions. Hands up anyone who hasn't done a whole range of training since they initially qualified. ..... I thought so, no hands went up!

 

You people with qualifications started the ongoing development long before some of the more 'professional' 'professions' even thought of it.

 

I feel that there is a need for some sort of regulating body, acting on behalf of the practitioners. Not a 'union', but a professional association, some way considering and acting upon the concerns and interests of practitioners, with self-regulation, like the other professions have.

 

I feel I can say all this impartially, because I am unqualified. I am working to an early years level 4 qualification, but I have no previous qualifications: this is my way into early years training, and this is the new way of doing it.

 

All of you with older qualifications should be able to have these and your interim training recognised. In any other profession it would be acceptable (e.g. doctors do not have to 're-train', they just go on courses that keep them abreast of changes).

 

Maybe it is time for letters to MP's (there is a useful website that will fax your MP for you and track his/her response).

 

The government is investing in early years practitioner training but is not seeing the overall situation. It is time that those of you with worthwhile qualifications stated your case. I, for one, as one of the 'new track' think it must be done.

 

Diane (I am not a political person).

[hali]

Diane

 

Do you know what the website is that tracks MPs.

 

I have never got in touch with an MP before but thought as i am so frustrated with this issue maybe i will (thinking about it).........

[Guest]

You could try www.faxyourmp.com. If we all did the same then maybe they would take notice.

 

Jo

[hali]

it may be worth a try.....

[Guest]

I will definately be doing this , I know quite a few other people in this position so will let them know as well, I think we have let people in authority tell us what to do for too long when all along we know they are wrong. Its about time we took action.

[Guest]

Hello all,

 

That's the site for faxing MPs.

 

It does get some sort of a result. I know because I've done it (and the site does a league table of MP's responses), so they do get back. And then the site asks for feedback (did the MP reply? did they do anything? ...... etc).

 

There is surely no harm in all of us doing it.

 

 

Diane.

[Guest]

Right I've just faxed my local MP has anyone else done it yet ????????

[hali]

Hi Hotgrass

 

well done i have just done the same.

 

Lets await a reply!!!!!

[Guest]

Do you reckon we'll get one ?????????????????????????????????????

[hali]

 

who knows?????

 

 

hav'nt lost anything by trying though and ive never emailed or written for that matter to an MP before!!!

[hali]

well guys

 

evelope arrived this morning from the "House of commons".

 

It reads..."Thank you for your fax regarding older style qualifications. I have taken this up with the Department of Education and Skills. I will of course get back to you when i have a response."

 

Your sincerlely THE RT HON THERESA MAY MP

 

 

...........Will let you know

[Guest]

Wow it really worked !!!!!!!!!!!!! I am still waiting for a reply , I must be honest and say that I have had a lot of dealings with the department for education and they have always been very helpful. Lets see what happens now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Right I've been on a few other websites and told them to fax their MP's and I've already had replies saying that they've done it. I've emailed a friend who I trained with and asked her to do it. Can you all help and spread the word , anyone at all that you can think of.

[Guest]

I've done mine,

 

Jo

[Gezabel]

Done mine tooo!

 

Apparently my MP replies to 63% of faxes within 14 days ( just thought you may like to check how your MP rates!)

 

I will let you know if and when I get a reply.