Pay Scales

[Guest]

My nursery have a scale for pay, based on what qualifications staff are. There are several bands to each section, so that you can move up the scale on a yearly basis.

 

The first manager put staff onto the scale at a point that she thought was suitable. The following acting manager put all staff at the bottom of the band that was relevant to their qualification - unless they came from a job that paid higher - and then she would match that.

 

The results are that there is a highly experienced member of staff who has the same qualification as another, on a significant amount of money less.

 

This all seems very anti equal opportunities, and there is so system at all - which I don't agree on.

 

For those of you who have pay scales:

 

1. how do you decide where to put someone on the scale?

2. when do they move up an increment?

3. do they go at different parts of the scale according to age (e.g. under and over 22 - taking into account minimum wage?

4. Do you pay different for level 2 and 3 staff - if so - what happens if the level 2 staff member gains their level 3, but you cannot afford at that stage to pay them level 3 wages?

 

Any advise or ideas would be great - as I am keen to create some fairness in the system.

[Guest]

A couple of setting I have worked at had 'pay scales' this was based more so on qualifications and experience

So level 3 would be paid more than level 2 and someone who has been qualified for 5 years would be on a higher scale than someone qualified for 1 year.

 

However the setting I am in now doesn't use these - If you are level 2 you are on one salary and level 3 on another, simple!

 

Has got me thinking though how unfair this now seems!

[Guest]

I base my pay scales on 'responsibility' , then experience rather than qualification. Apart from mine of course, I am the highest qualified, have the most responsibility and earn the least. but hey, I get to pay someone else to cover me should I need a day off. , which I don't often because they cost me more than I earn

 

Joking aside, this is a good question, I am looking to hire a graduate to 'lead' the FSC, part of the CWDC initiative, and taking advantage of transformation funding. However, this persons responsibility will be to lead the FSC, my deputy has been with me 4 years, has a level 3 qualification, is H&S Officer, SENCO and Inclusion officer. How would you differentiate their pay scales????

 

The level 3 is on £6.50 an hour. What would you pay the graduate??

 

Peggy

 

don't forget level 3 is also deputy manager, and manager in my absence.

[Guest]

I'm just stumped over it all

[Guest]

This is purely my opinion and I expect to be shot down on this one....

 

I don't think there is scope for graduates to be earning more until there is long term sustainability for their post???????

 

From what I understand the transformation fund etc is providing a short hit of funding to cover employing a graduate but only 49% is towards salary(s)?...I'm sure I may be wrong on this....the rest is towards providing a quality setting.

This funding is for an initial couple of years then the setting is supposed to sustain it...bearing in mind more graduates will be expecting the same going forward..?

 

Whilst completely respecting the knowledge that graduates may have I think we should be acknowledging our experienced practicioners just as much....and be very mindful of what happens when the funding runs out

 

And has any one seen a job titled FD nursery nurse? the general recognition is still for NNEB/level 3

 

We would all love a workforce of graduates but not until the government accepts the role of day care in the economy (not holding my breath) and practicioners are recognised for what they bring to children's lives - like teachers and with similar pay scales - can I see that a graduate would be paid more. I think it should certainly be expected but where are settings supposed to get the money to do this?

[Guest]

agree Jayde, My concern is that Ofsted will require graduate level for leaders, as they do now require level 3. However, this will require a change to current employees contracts with a condition to reach a degree qualification within a certain time scale. I questioned CDWC on this and their response was vague to say the least, basically repeating the 'research says that...... improves childrens outcomes'. I also spoke to the Department of Employment about making such contractual changes, very difficult if staff do not wish to do a degree, basically a chicken and egg situation was their response. New recruits into the field will have professional development plans to include reaching degree level, but it is difficult to say that current staff must reach this level, so, in the future there will most probably be issues of redundancy payments for staff not wanting to retrain.

 

Time will tell.

 

Peggy

[Rea]

Around 15 years ago the women who ran the playgroup started to leave when it became apparent they would have to have a qualification. Aunty Christine, Aunty Pat, other Aunty Pat, Aunty Molly. They were all deemed by the powers that be to have deficiencies because they didnt want to train. They had helped hundreds of children through their first steps into mixing with other children and adults of a range of backgrounds. They had got up early to lay out the megre equipment and resources in a fairly tatty church hall and provided a biscuit and a drink of orange squash all for about £1.50.

Things have moved on and will continue to do so, I just hope that the 'Aunties' of the world wont find themselves out of the job they love because they dont want to train (again)

[Sue R]

Yes, Rea, I remember those days, too. Just because I was prepared to train I became the playgroup leader. It turned out to be the best decision I ever made, both personally and for the benefit of my family when redundancy raised it's ugly head for my husband, but I wasn't to know that at the time. Now, with retirement beckoning, I can't really see the point of retraining as no sooner I qualified than I'd be 'off into the sunset' (hopefully!). That's not to say I think I couldn't do it - I'm sure I could, and I'm sure I could lead the setting forward. That's just my personal take. My lovely, brilliant manager is worried - she'd like to take a degree but considers herself not academic enough, which is tosh! I'm really trying to persuade her to go for it - it seems awful that she might be forced out of a position she fills incredibly well, with lots of experience and common-sense, for someone with a crisp new qualification but still wet behind the ears. They'd never manage some of the staffing issues we have, with so many young ones!

 

Sorry, 'all opinions are personal and may not represent those of the management'!

 

Sue

[Guest]

Just thinking about what you said about your manager training Sue...

 

I am a manager of a setting in a children's centre. I wanted to study the foundation degree and progress further, I started this twice! The first time I got as far as the first term before work commitments took over and I had to quit! I picked it up again a couple of months later and managed to do six months of the two year course before once again my priority had to be my paid employment. I found that each time I had ended this course I felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders! I didn't feel that I could commit to the amount of studying required for FD.

 

Five months later I have picked up the NVQ level 4, I am finding this much easier (I know its not designed to be) and I can actually study in work when I get a spare five mins!!

 

....I would love to have continued with my FD and wasn't at all made to feel that I wasn't academic enough to study for it so i'm sure this need not be a concern of hers - I am hardly brain surgeon material!! , however in my experience (and in the experience of two other managers I know) I think studying for this is very time consuming and stressful....difficult if trying to fit in a full time job!

[Sue R]

Good point, Jayde.

 

One of the things I've been encourafing her to do is approach the Directors (lovely, understanding people who are well aware of the calibre of this manager) to see if she can organise one study day a week. The senior manager at the other nursery only works 3.5 days, so it's not without precedent. I'm sure we could cope for one day - knowing this lady, she'll make sure we're all clear what should be happening.

 

Do you think that would be a viable option for her?

 

Sue

[Rea]

Dont know your deputy but I know you and have seen the nursery at work so I would say your manager could safely take a study day. Tell her to do it, we need smiley poeple in childcare

[Guest]

One of the managers I mentioned did this and says she is a little less stressed!!

 

She should go for it as should you

[Alison]

Im a bit worried about paying people according to qualification especially when so oftern those less qualified (in my setting at least) are normally the unqualified "aunties" who work above and beyond what their pay covers taking craft things home to prepare, washing the tea towels getting in early to set up and get the heatig on etc like Peggy we pay according to responcibility rather than qualifications

 

theres manager, Deputy, senco, H&S and and extra role we created "domestic resources co-ordinater" - this covers the above tasks and means that our aunty Lin isnt treated like the untrained bottom of the pay scale new person she is more like a senior member of staff and integral to the smooth flow of the sessions.

[Sue R]

Well done for helping to make her feel valuable, Alison! It's folk like her that keep things going!

 

Sue