Evidence Requirements For Profiles

[Guest]

Hi all!

 

I'll start by apologising for asking questions that may have already been answered before, but I spend so much time working on my profile folder I havn't got time to look for them!

 

I was wondering how much evidence/assessment needs to be done for the profile i.e. does every single point ned to have a specific reference to evidence that the child is able to 'do' the item. Hmm... that doesn't seem very clear - what I mean is, say the item about "asks questions about how things work etc etc" in the K&U section - would you need evidence of each child doing this, or is it OK to think "I know that this child can do this" and tick the box? So far I have provided evidence for each point I have ticked, for each child, but sometimes look at points & think I could tick them, but I don't have any evidence, just my own knowledge of the child (am I making sense here???)

 

ALSO (!) I was wondering if I am collecting the appropriate evidence - I use observations, write-ups from group work or sometimes from whole class work if something stuck out in my mind, a photo album, literacy/numeracy etc books, art portfolios, computer print outs, evidence of mark making during child initiated work and informal notes I make when something "just has to be written down". What else could I use?

 

Hope someone is able to help me, these profiles are really getting me down at the moment.

 

Thanks, Dianne xxx

[Susan]

Hi Dianne.

I think you're on the right lines, certainly I'm not doing anything else!

 

You should get some support in moderation through your LEA. Only 2 areas are being moderated each year, the cycle is in the back of the Profile Handbook. In my LEA, its PSE & K&U, which I think are probably the 2 most difficult anyway! But we are only going to work with 2 children.

 

I've just opted for a moderating meeting at end of Feb. so might know more then.

Its interesting how the profile seems to be taking over as I'm sure that was never the intention.

 

Susan

[Helen]

Hi Dianne,

When I worked as a FS profile moderator last year, we were told not to expect evidence for every point for every child; that is simply not feasible Teachers must be given credit for knowing where their children are, and if they know a child asks questions about how things work, for example, and they have done so on frequent occasions, then the point can be circled. I think the danger might arise if a teacher has a feeling that a child can do something, but they've only see this on one or two occasions; you have to be sure that it has been achieved.

If you look at page 4 of the FS profile handbook, there is an example from a profile page. This particular teacher has just jotted down notes, eg "perseverance!" and "nearly there!" Personally, I think this is too vague; there must be a happy medium somewhere!!

[Guest cat33]

Diane, I agree with what has been said already. You do not need evidence for each scale. Sounds as if you are keeping lots of evidence! I am just focusing on PSE as that is the area being moderated this year. We are going to write straight into the scale booklet this year too as last year we had to transfer the information at the end of the year.

I think everyone is still feeling their way round the best way and the right amount of evidence.

Seems that we are doing more assessment than the rest of the school just now!

Chris

[Susan]

Agreed on that one Chris!

I'm sure that couldn't have been the intention but my school has certainly gone mad, I've had my knuckles rapped because I can't keep track of all 13 scales at once! (And I'm FS coordinator & on SMT.) If I thought we had a problem last year,it was nothing compared to this.

 

Susan

[mundia]

Has anyone been moderated this cycle ? Ours is tomorrow and they want to interview me (as phase manager-I'm based in nursery) but Im not sure what they are going to want to know.

Those of you that are moderators, can you give me a clue?

My Head just said to make sure I have my coordinators file up to date (which it is) but was fairly clueless herself. I like to be prepared, but I only found out on Friday, so will I need anything else?

[Guest]

Our moderation is 20 February. In the letter which notified us of the visit, we were told that the following will be of particular importance:

Teacher's files of dated observations

Profile assessments

Annotated photos which demonstrate achievement

Recent examples of children's own mark making

Paintings, drawings and models etc.

 

This suggests that all scales will be looked at, not just PSE and K&UW as in Annex 1 of Profile Folder. I am contacting adviser to clarify this.

 

Gail

[Guest cat33]

Mundia, how did it go? You are the first person I have heard of being moderated so give us the details!!

How probing were they? Chris

[Susan]

Hope all went well Mundia.

Gail, good luck! We've got some moderating meetings to go to and some training. Seems like alot of presssure when it all starts this soon?

 

Susan

[mundia]

We were put off until later in the week as its Eid and we only had 3 children.

[Susan]

A lucky escape or prolonging the agony?

 

Susan

[mundia]

Both probably.

[Guest]

I have just spent a day on profile trainning and found it mind boggling we had very little information as to how we will keep tabs on evidence 117 X 30children = 3,510 pieces of evidence but we have decided to expand the pupil profile we already keep on each child and put a grid index at the front and tick off as we enter each piece of evidence, this may be in the form of childrens drawings/work, individual written observations, class observations, photographs, postit notes. We were told that a group photo would be sufficient for class activities and that each child did not need a personal photo but how would we file this?

[Guest]

Do you know something,this is all a bit mad!!!! I can see things from both perspectives,as a parent and a teacher. As a teacher its crazy and as a parent I really want to know if my child is getting on ok,not millions of details which the teacher has sweated over instead of having fun with/ teaching the kids.I realise that lots of great teachers can do it all brilliantly but it does not make our job any easier and i dont think it makes a huge difference to our knowledge of the kids and therefore our planning!Phew!!Take it all with a pinch of salt teachers-not long to Easter!

[mundia]

Well the moderation went fine. 2 children observed in each class and a comparison made of the views of the teachers and the views of the moderator which were thankfully in total agreement. A quick look at the ways in which we gather evidence (not scrutinising them, just seeing what we do), and a discussion on the issues arising as a result (I think she just wanted to take feedback from each school as she visited). That was it. No suggestion at all of collecting evidence for everything for everybody (which we dont do anyway)

So fear not, hope everyone elses are as smooth.

 

[Guest]

Glad it went well Mundia. I just hope ours goes as smoothly!

[Guest]

Just completed our moderation meeting - the areas moderated were K&U and PSE - seem popular this year! It wasn't at all stressful - our judgements weren't questioned - It was just a case of "Have you been collecting evidence?, what is it? How are you recording it?" We only had to choose 3 children and it all went very smoothly - lots of reassurance from all concerned that teachers' judgements are being given rightful weighting for once! We went to a meeting - the moderators didn't come into school and it was a really useful morning, meeting with other settings and comparing what was being done. Still lots of people filling in individual records for every child - we still use the group record idea - all children on one page for each area of learning, but we do keep individual records on our 3 chosen children with moderation in mind. My message to those who have moderation to come - don't panic - you'll find you are doing the right thing!

[Guest cat33]

Mundia, glad it went well. It sounds to be not as searching as we had all feared. Almost just a check that we are making judgements and keeping evidence. Only PSE is being moderated this year for us. I think sometimes that is the hardest to have concrete evidence for and we are only using observations and photos.

At least next week is half term and we do not have to think about evidence for a whole week!! Chris

[mundia]

Chris I think You are right- sometimes we get all worried about something that's new to us, only to find out that it was fine. Our moderator was just as interested in what we thought of the profile and what the workload is like and whether the Heda was giving non contact time (which she isnt).

[Guest cat33]

Mundia, that is sad. Non contact time is so important. I hope our moderator is as nice as yours. I can,t help but feel it is a lot of work for one year at school. <_< Chris

[mundia]

It is hard, especially as we dont have full time support in our reception classses either fro 30 children most of then EAL. But we constantly say that we do the best we can with what we have, and that's all any of us can do.

[Guest cat33]

Mundia, how do you survive? How much support do you have? Actually it makes me very cross when I hear that you have 30 and no full time help. How are we expected to complete all the goverment wants of us when there are not enough adults to support. How on earth do you manage observations?!!

Chris

[mundia]

We have some very good students and we dont have timetabled teaching all the time. Our timetable has 'observation' blocked in it at certain times; we are not pressured by KS1 (well we are, but I just tell them they are talking nonsense when they moan about how little written work the children have). I can might my corner very well when it cmes to the curriculum, how we work and what we do, but constantly hit a brick wall when I want to talk about staffing. (it all comes down to money). We dont do literacy or numeracy 'hour', not even at the end of the year, adn our children make very good progress. So the Heads argument goes along the lines of 'but you are all doing such a great job, you dont need any more support!!!' This is where EY proffessionals such as we are shoot ourselves in the foot. We care so much about our job and our children that we will move mountains to make evn the most difficult of circumstances work.

But Id better stop there before I really get on my soapbox...

[Guest]

Exactly Mundia-I dont know anyother sector where people are so conscientious!!!But thats why we are is this job "a que si !"