Guest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Help, Thanks to everyone for there advise earlier in the week. In re;ation to our SEF where we say 'our children join us below average, esp in CLL, PSE, CREATIVE' they want to know how we know. i am ready to say that we are in an area of high deprivation with many under educated parents etc. i can also say that our children come to us from a variety of setting inc home, play group, private day care and nursey schools and so there is a wide variety of backgrounds adn expereiences. in the early weeks we carry out a school profile of basic skills such painting, colourig, colur rec, using scissors, writing name, rec numbers, handling books etc. I then assess the class againt the first 3 stepping stones in each area. There are a high proportion of children who do not achieve on the first 3 steps and so from all this i deem them to be below average. Does this sound right. Who decided what average was? is there a big point or document i am missing? getting really flustered about this questions and proving why i think they are below average. if i had some national data mayber this would help, but o don't. can anyone else tell me if there children are above of below average when they begin school and how do you know thank everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 We do on entry to nursery/end of nursery and on entry to reception baseline so have evidence of our children's starting points. On our SEF the head had said our children were average on entry and OFSTED disputed this saying they were below average.........so you cant win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 i know this is wnat is so frustrating. Does anyone know of a document outline skills of the 4/5 year old. OFSTED are in on Tuesday and Wednesday. i am on my own in a one form entry, reception only!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Do you get Transition reports,( often called Record of Transfer Reports) from preschool / nursery when the children start with you? These, in our area, show at what level in each of the 6 areas the children have achieved, and what the next steps are. These, I believe were designed to enable Reception teachers to know at what level children are at, and to stop the need for baseline assessment at a time when children are settling in to a totally new learning environment / experience. Do you have many children who do not attend preschool at all? This may show a need for your local LEA to advertise more fully the entitlement to all 3/4 yrs old to the NEG. My preschool is in a deprived area, and we have children with SEN, EAL and many 'looked after' children, however, although they may be below average when they start with us, after a year ( or two years - depending on DOB) they do catch up or develop at a pace relevant to their needs in the case of SEN. In the main, all our children attain the blue level, the majority moving into the green level and a few are meeting a few ELG's, by the time they go to school. I think the average would be the Blue area on entry to school, for Summer borns and Blue/Green for Autumn birthdays. However, as we know the colour bands are not necessarily hiearchical, but supposing a child starts the FSC at age 3 and completes at age 5, ( 2 yr curriculum), and there are 4 bands, then we might expect that 2 bands completed 1st year, and 2 completed 2nd year. We do have to consider that there is a change of setting for the child within this 2 yr cycle, which can interupt the development / assessment process, as they deal with the transition from one setting to another. PSE is particularly relevant here, for example as an adult, if I find myself in a new environment, I go right back to the 'looking on' stage, even though I have been a complex co-operative participant in a previous social environment. It may take me quite a while to become a complex co-operative participant in the new setting. I'm thinking about when I start training courses, if I can understand the jargon / get to know fellow students and feel secure and confident about my input into the classes then I get involved within a few weeks. if I don't then my settling in can take at least a term. When you say 1st three steps, do you mean the yellow band? As the owner of my preschool I would be very concerned if children were not attaining the 1st three steps within the yellow band at age 4, and would possibly be involving the SENCO to ascertain why, long before they were starting school. I also would not count 'writing name' as a basic skill, yes, some children can on entry to school, but many are not yet aspired to doing it, it is a grey level goal for end of Reception year. Maybe it would help if you look at the child's milestones in, Social, Emotional, Physical, Intellectual / Cognitive, Language and Creative developments, which are evidenced in all aspects of their life, home and school ( rather than stepping stones - which are only assessed at school) to ascertain if they are below average. Ask parents what the children can and enjoy doing at home, which they may not be showing at school within their 1st few weeks. This could be done on home visits prior to starting. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 We do on entry to nursery/end of nursery and on entry to reception baseline so have evidence of our children's starting points. On our SEF the head had said our children were average on entry and OFSTED disputed this saying they were below average.........so you cant win! Maybe we should ask Ofsted on what measurement scale they make their judgements on. Marion, I am interested, Is the Nursery based in the school?, what difference would be shown between the end of Nursery and the entry to Reception assessments? How much do children gain through the holidays, or is your baseline done after a settling in period in Reception, if so, at what point of the term do you do Reception baseline? Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 We usually see a decline over the holidays so the baseline is completed in the 6 weeks after entry to reception. Then at the end of reception to inform the FSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 We usually see a decline over the holidays so the baseline is completed in the 6 weeks after entry to reception. Then at the end of reception to inform the FSP Sorry, asking you lots of questions, and didn't mean to highjack this post but just wanted to know if you think the decline is due to non attendence of a stimulating environment for a period of time, or do you think the end of Nursery reports are maybe too generous, thus showing a decline at reception baseline assessment? We as preschool practitioners, I think, also worry about how we judge attainment, in terms of being too generous or too high in our expectations of when a child achieves a particular criteria. Do you have a particular colour band that you would expect the average intake to be at, on entry to Reception? Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 In our case it seems its due to non attendence (most children entering reception are from our FSU) We see the same decline in each year group over the long summer break as few of our children will attend a setting during this time. Most of our children are in blue by the end of nursery beginning of reception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Teacherinpink, this sort of data used to be in the school PANDA, not sure if it still is as I am out of the loop doing supply, but could be worth investigating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I agree with Peggy, I would have thought that if the children are coming from Pre-schools and Nurseries surely if they are that below the average they would have been put on a SEN action, or are all your preschools not doing their job. It seems highly unlikely even if it is an area of deprivation. If a child has been at pre-school for a year they should be at least in the yellow, I have child whose parents are not of a average educational standard but would have hoped that after a year even the youngest have attained the yellow band and nearly all would be in the blue. It does make you wonder where Ofsted get their average from. Do Sure Start or Ofsted not have their own developemental skills chart for a 4/5 year old. haven't had a look but there must be one some where. good luck with the inspectors. Teacherinpink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tinkerbell Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Hi Teacherinpink Good luck tomorrow and Wednesday. Do you have some samples of work you could show? Do you do the e-profile or profile which would show where the children were in Autumn? Tinkerbellx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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