Qualification Controversy

[Guest]

Anyone help, a member of staff has just finished the C&G Level 3 Childrens Care and Development Award, allegedly equivalent to NVQ 3 Early Years Care and Eduaction, sparking off a dispute within the workforce, another member of staff is NVQ3 and this took her 2years to complete, the C&G took one year and the member of staff can supervise although she has only 1yr experience!! I have been asked what I think and to be honest I do no the NVQ3 seems so much more involved how can it be equivalent to 1years work?? Anybody else had this problem??

[Guest]

I know that it is equivalent to an NVQ Level 3, but am not sure why it only took 1 year?? I think it would be down to your own setting to decide how much experience you want someone to have had before coming a supervisor, as well as just generally knowing your staff's capabilities.

 

Good luck with the dispute!

[Guest]

I think your absolutely right, knowing your staff's capabilities is the key - I think for the NVQ3 member of staff she is demoralised having struggled to get this qualification and having four years experience behind her, and a new member of staff comes in and bang is qualified within a year, the local provider made the course intense so it was no breeze, it is a tricky situation, because pay scale wise the level 3 staff member is saying she should be paid the same as she has the same qualification, but experience is everything isn't it? I feel she will go elsewhere as she feels her qualification is not being recognised enough - bit of a sore subject after they both have worked so hard.

Can't please all the people all the time.......

Edited July 9, 2006 by Guest

[Guest]

I'm not sure about the content of C&G course work, but I do know that some of my employees have done the DPP ( one full day per week attending course and written assignements) and others have done NVQ ( one evening per week- voluntary, not mandatory to attend, assessor visits setting, plus written Knowledge work).

 

I really think that it is the 'process' that is different, thus taking different amount of time to complete. The NVQ completion is dependent on how often the assessor can visit, and how soon the candidate hands in work, and then how soon it can all be verified. With the DPP the student has assignement deadlines, and each module is verified as it is done, rather than waiting for the whole course to be completed.

 

If the QCA recognise both at Level 3 then the content has covered the required criteria.

 

Also, many students do not recognise that NVQ is about evidencing what you should already know and can do, whereas the DPP is taught from the perspective of what you don't yet know or can do, therefore to pass the assignements, the DPP course sessions are maybe much more indepth than NVQ sessions.

 

The choice of study / course / assessment is also dependent on students prior knowledge / experience and style of learning.

ie: one of my staff is a parent, she studied at school to A level, so she went straight into DPP Level 3 without doing level 2 and passed with merits. This was within 6 months of working at the preschool, she is now deputy, one year on from qualifying, she is being seriously considered for the management role now.

I personally studied in 1983 the then PPA Introductory course ( which would now be about level 1), I then had 15 yrs experience, plus studied a tutor course. My next early Years course was ADCE in 1998 ( then recognised at level 4 equivalent). I did not study levels 2 or 3, but passed at level 4.

 

I personally prefer assignment based study rather than the NVQ route.

 

Even though your C & G employee has only one years experience, the value of this depends in what capacity her experience has been in within the workplace.

 

I personally feel that the NVQ is too paperbased, in terms of portfolio building, and is not a user friendly process to achieve evidence for Level 3 criteria. The 'process' takes more time, not the content.

 

I have also employed a member of staff who had the BTEC, followed by the Foundation degree, she had little practical experience, for example didn't know how to do observations ( she'd forgotten the theory because she hadn't practiced obs enough) and had very little common sense.

As an employer, I do recognise qualifications, obviously, but they do not always give a true picture of a persons knowledge or abilities. Everyone applies their knowledge and skills differently.

 

With that last sentence in mind, you cannot argue whether one qualification is better than, or worse than any other. The fact it is on the QCA list enables you to meet Ofsted requirments, It is then up to you as an employer how you deploy staff, relevant to their strengths within your setting.

 

Good luck.

 

Peggy

 

I think your absolutely right, knowing your staff's capabilities is the key - I think for the NVQ3 member of staff she is demoralised having struggled to get this qualification and having four years experience behind her, and a new member of staff comes in and bang is qualified within a year, the local provider made the course intense so it was no breeze, it is a tricky situation, because pay scale wise the level 3 staff member is saying she should be paid the same as she has the same qualification, but experience is everything isn't it? I feel she will go elsewhere as she feels her qualification is not being recognised enough - bit of a sore subject after they both have worked so hard.

Can't please all the people all the time.......

 

 

MY pay scales are relevant to responsibilities / positions and not qualifications. This is because you could easily have everyone qualified within the setting, but this does not mean they are doing the same job. Gaining a qualification means you are better ( compared to unqualified) at your job, but not that the actual job changes. ( if you see what I mean )

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Thank you Peggy for once again giving such good advice, I agree with the differences in what you state about qulifications, however the NVQ staff member is such a dedicated and good employee and the C&G has found a fast route to qualify herself yet doesn't seem as interested/enthusiastic in the job!

Probably that's were the injustice lies, the NVQ3 member of staff is just more keen and has been passionate about her study - swings and roundabouts I suppose and like you say it's the personal attributes that really count not what qualifications we gain.

[hali]

sound advise but also go with your gut feelings.....

[Guest]

Hi Peggy

 

I went straight on to my level 3 without completing the level 2.

I did the first year of the DCE, stuck in college, no money, placements where I didn't feel I 'bonded' with the children etc. So I went down the NVQ road and much preferred it. It was better for me also because of Natalie and it fit in better around her and her needs. The only drawback is like you say, the NVQ is dependant on others to an extent, assessors visits, verification of units etc. It took the training providers 3 months to verify my very last unit, so in affect, I could have qualified sooner had it been seen sooner.

 

My friend did the CCE at college and then was able to do the DCE in 1 year. I don't personally feel that a 1 year level 3 course can furnish a person with all the knowledge and skills relevant to a level 3 position, so that would be where the experience comes in. She has now completed an NVQ3 in Management and is coming with me in October to do the Foundation Degree.

[Guest]

Hi Peggy

 

I went straight on to my level 3 without completing the level 2.

I did the first year of the DCE, stuck in college, no money, placements where I didn't feel I 'bonded' with the children etc. So I went down the NVQ road and much preferred it. It was better for me also because of Natalie and it fit in better around her and her needs. The only drawback is like you say, the NVQ is dependant on others to an extent, assessors visits, verification of units etc. It took the training providers 3 months to verify my very last unit, so in affect, I could have qualified sooner had it been seen sooner.

 

My friend did the CCE at college and then was able to do the DCE in 1 year. I don't personally feel that a 1 year level 3 course can furnish a person with all the knowledge and skills relevant to a level 3 position, so that would be where the experience comes in. She has now completed an NVQ3 in Management and is coming with me in October to do the Foundation Degree.

 

 

When my employee did the DPP she was at college one day a week and working 4 days in the setting, I have taught the CCE at college ( full time students) and agree placements are'nt a true reflection of a students skills, they are not able to fully understand the ethos, vision of the setting they are placed in because 1/ they are treated like students and not members of the staff team, and 2/ because the placements are barely long enough to undergo induction let alone become fully integrated into the daily sessions, get to know the children etc.

In my experience, only 1 out of 5 of my staff who became NVQ candidates actually completed, they became so demotivated they left the sector. ( must be something to do with my area, at the time), however, NVQ's are suitable to many candidates, as you say, they can fit into life / work / study balance.

 

 

I think it is worth employers looking at whether it is appropriate to set salary scales purely on what when and what qualification they complete. There are many qualified teachers working in preschools who certainly don't get the salary levels they would if they worked in the maintained sector.

 

I would value the level 3's achievement and, yes, although she could be supervisor, she isn't, let her know the future promotional prospects ( thus increased salary) opportunities within your setting that she will be able to apply for in the future, should a vacancy occur. Thus giving her aspirations for the future. yes, she could go elsewhere, but a position in a place that you enjoy working in, compared to a higher position in a place you don't know (until you've tried) is left for her to decide. You say she, Quote "doesn't seem as interested/enthusiastic in the job! ", is this because of the current issues or how she has been overall, even during study?

If it is the latter, then the qualification wouldn't guarantee promotion as she is not showing enthusiasm in her current position.

Have a chat with her about what she see's herself doing in say 3 or 5 yrs time. Remind her (tactfully) that self discipline in promoting ones own proffesional development without monetary gain is also very worthy, on it's own, in terms of increasing own knowledge, confidence, self pride etc .

 

 

Peggy

 

When my employee did the DPP she was at college one day a week and working 4 days in the setting, I have taught the CCE at college ( full time students) and agree placements are'nt a true reflection of a students skills, they are not able to fully understand the ethos, vision of the setting they are placed in because 1/ they are treated like students and not members of the staff team, and 2/ because the placements are barely long enough to undergo induction let alone become fully integrated into the daily sessions, get to know the children etc.

In my experience, only 1 out of 5 of my staff who became NVQ candidates actually completed, they became so demotivated they left the sector. ( must be something to do with my area, at the time), however, NVQ's are suitable to many candidates, as you say, they can fit into life / work / study balance.

I think it is worth employers looking at whether it is appropriate to set salary scales purely on what when and what qualification they complete. There are many qualified teachers working in preschools who certainly don't get the salary levels they would if they worked in the maintained sector.

 

I would value the level 3's achievement and, yes, although she could be supervisor, she isn't, let her know the future promotional prospects ( thus increased salary) opportunities within your setting that she will be able to apply for in the future, should a vacancy occur. Thus giving her aspirations for the future. yes, she could go elsewhere, but a position in a place that you enjoy working in, compared to a higher position in a place you don't know (until you've tried) is left for her to decide. You say she, Quote "doesn't seem as interested/enthusiastic in the job! ", is this because of the current issues or how she has been overall, even during study?

If it is the latter, then the qualification wouldn't guarantee promotion as she is not showing enthusiasm in her current position.

Have a chat with her about what she see's herself doing in say 3 or 5 yrs time. Remind her (tactfully) that self discipline in promoting ones own proffesional development without monetary gain is also very worthy, on it's own, in terms of increasing own knowledge, confidence, self pride etc .

Peggy

 

...and for opening doors in the future, that are not even known about in the present.

[Guest]

I do a basic pay scale on qualification, but then depending on years of experience, and responsibility, depends on how much they get after they have qualified. that way if they take on more responsibilty they get more money, qualification is only a guideline on their basic knowledge, and not necesarily their common sense.

[Guest]

We have a staff member doing the NVQ level 3 (its now called fast track NVQ 3), she will have completed the whole thing in 9 months!!!!!!!!!!!! It took me much longer to do the DPP!! This particular staff member wants to go on to do the Foundation Degree and I am worried as to how she will cope with this as the courses are assessed so differently!!??

[hali]

after having done my 1st year, she will probably struggle......