1 More/1 Less

[Guest]

Please can you tell me what you look for to justify that children can find 1 more/1 less. Do you expect them to be able to identify these from memory or are you happy if they can do it by counting on their fingers/looking at a number line/re-counting when 1 has been added/taken away?

 

Also, have you any fool-proof tips for teaching 1 more/less? A lot of mine are finding this hard and I'm worrying that it's me.

[Susan]

Ive rarely scored this as Ive always found that the children are not consistent with 1 less. They have a concept of less in that they can tell you who has more sweets or who has less but can not tell you 1 less from a given number. 1 more seems to be a lot easier.

If I remember correctly there was a lengthy discussion about this last year, you might find it in a search!

[Guest]

I can't find it! So ideas and help please!

[apple]

have you tried getting them to jump up and down on a floor number line Moose? We so this a lot and the physical act sometimes helps. We use a large die with clear pockets in the sides so that we can slot in cards that say 1 more/1 less and they have to jump accordingly. Giant flash cards would act just as well (for the more able we extend it to 2 more 2 less. It is a hard one and I agree with Susan that they usually find more an easier concept... I mean we never say "OOh i dont want less chocolate thankyou" ... always more

When assessing their understanding of this concept I feel it is better that they can say 1 more/1 less mentally however, I need to check the exemplification in the profile and also the NNS to clarify this.

hope this helps

[Guest]

Hi Moose

if I remember correctly the profile says undefined one more or one less', so I take this to mean that they can use objects to work it out with, I don't expect them to remember. However I normally find that if they are confident with the concept of more & less they know the answer anyway. I agree with Susan, they are much more secure with more than less. I've only given this point to a few of my top group of children so far this year

Debbie

[Guest]

Sorry Moose underlined bit should say 'find'

Debbie

[Susan]

I'm pretty sure this is the one I was thinking of!

 

I think, Moose, if in doubt leave it out!!

 

I have used objects to try this one but almost invariably the children who could tell me 1 less that x is y also used the objects correctly and those that couldnt, didnt!!!

And that was after lots of physical counting activities.

 

Have fun!!

[Guest]

Moose why don't you look in the Profile Handbook that gives you examples and also the CD rom gives examples for every point (I think) It will surprise you , I think, about what you can use for evidence.

[Alison]

Ive rarely scored this as Ive always found that the children are not consistent with 1 less. They have a concept of less in that they can tell you who has more sweets or who has less but can not tell you 1 less from a given number. 1 more seems to be a lot easier.

If I remember correctly there was a lengthy discussion about this last year, you might find it in a search!

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its just a thought but I think because children learn to repeat a list of numbers befor they learn to understand them its easy to remember what comes next and add one more is in the natural flow of counting, but then going backwards they need to work it out there isnt that leval of habit

 

songs that count backwards (countdown for a space rocket), might help the develop the childs ability to say what number is one less

[Guest]

Hi Moose

have you ever used a numberstick? This is a stick which is divided into 10 equal parts. I put nos 1-5 and then 10 on the stick and we do loads of counting forwards and back using this. I go onto teach 1 more with it and then when they are secure I teach 1 less. I also do loads of practical work with cubes and themselves. Also link it to packed lunches and school dinners.

I find the no stick such a useful resource and am now using to count on 2, 3 and 4 from a given no. Its great because it the children can see the nos very clearly and I can take the stick anywhere in the class andpoint to the nos easily.

Trudiex

[mundia]

Also a big fan of the counting stick, so simple and so incredibly versatile. We use them throughout the school. Its really funny to watch the chidlren using it in their role play.

Forgive my ignorance but does the phrase more OR less imply they can do either or it assumed that it should read more AND less?

[Guest]

I had always assumed it meant both, but I will be asking at our moderation meeting later in the month

[Guest]

I agree with the others about one more being easier than one less.

 

We have a number line hung from the ceiling and after register we count the girls and put a girl cut-out on the relevent number then count the boys and do the same. We then ask are there more boys or girls, followed by discussion of how many more which is always the same 'less than' number if you see what I mean!

 

Also use lots of number lines, and assess each child individually on this using frogs on a log, teddies in the bed etc.

 

Hope this helps

 

x

[Susan]

Fluff thats a good idea!

 

As for more or less, the handbook I think is a bit ambiguous if I remember correctly but think its concept that goes together "more or less" rather than apart "more" or "less" ?

[Marion]

I looked at the examples in the profile.

Finds one more or one less than a number from 1 to 10.

 

The child responds to instructions involving one more or one less in practical contexts such as the classroom ‘shop’ or ‘café’, for example working out how many cakes are left after selling one. S/he responds to questions such as, ‘What is one more/less than…?’

 

Shahne pours out 10 glasses of orange squash and checks by counting them. The practitioner asks, ‘How many will be left when Rihaz takes a juice?’ After a little thought, Shahne answers, ‘Nine’.

 

 

I would do things like 10 currant buns..... how many are left if I buy 1?

or Elephants come out to play.......... if there are six elephants and one more comes to play how many will there be?

never really found it a problem for most children in practical situations

[Guest]

My LEA state that you can score point 3 if the child can identify 1 more OR 1 less but for point 7or8 it has to be both 1 more than and 1 less than. I do this everyday with them for lots of practice however we still struggle with less. If they can not say the answer when I ask them I do not mark it off.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Guest

[Susan]

That makes good sense, Green.

[Marion]

Just a comment. Today we had water bombs (well it was sunny) and I was filling them at the sink watched by an eager group of children. The child next to me counted 5 water bombs in the bucket and sais ' if you fill one more there will be 6' and the group started telling me how many there would be as I filled them and put them into the bucket. At this point I dropped one and it burst. One of the girls said 'there was 12 but now there is only 11' Think I can mark them off for being able to do 1more/1 less?

 

Ooops forgot to add there was no input from me I was too busy trying to fill the waterbombs without getting soaked

Edited May 3, 2006 by Marion

[Susan]