Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hello and good evening to all! Right, I need a little advice. Whilst doing some general PD assessments I have noticed that one of the boys in my rec class runs in a funny way. It is very hard to explain or describe.... he seems to run with his feet at quarter to 3 not bending his legs very well, he can't hop and finds all gross and fine motor control very very difficult. He finds fine motor skills: scissor work, writing, drawing very very difficult. He trips at the slightest thing too. He is quite a bright little button but because he is unable to record this on paper very well it looks like all his work is scribble! I have approached the parents who have said they don't notice (and generally not really caring too much). I have given him lots of sand, playdough type of work but his concentration is next to nil and it is very difficult to get him interested in anything other than trains- hence every thing is train based work for him! My gut feeling is that there is something not right but i don't know what- it seems more than just immaturity....any ideas? Many Thanks Dougal xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Could it be dyspraxia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 dyspraxia is not something i have come across...will do a search...thanks x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hi Dougal If I didn't know otherwise I'd say you had a little boy we had at our pre-school last year-he's in nursery now. He had the strangest way of running, not bending his legs properly, he didn't really walk properly either. He flapped his arms when he ran. He had very poor concentration unless it was anything to do with trains or planes. We couldn't make our minds up whether he was bright or not-he seemed to be but we wondered if a lot of his knowledge came because he was so obsessive about things. He could look at a picture of a plane and tell you which airline it was! This little boy had reasonable fine motor skills, when we could get him to concentrate for long enough. But he had a very poor understanding of instructions. On one occasion he was in the home corner, which has a small wooden fence around it, and a member of staff was on the outside. When she asked him to come out he couldn't work out how to do it. Unfortunately he wasn't with us long enough to get the educational psychologist in to assess him. But we felt that he probably had dyspraxia. At first we put it down to immaturity and he had not spent any time with other children. So we were concentrating on his social skills-he could be very aggressive towards the other children. But after a term we realised he wasn't improving and started moving things on by getting his parents in and contacting his health visitor. By the time we had got the ball rolling he moved on to nursery. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Dyspraxia is quite complex, Dougal. I had a child with this condition a few years ao and although I cant remember how he ran, he was generally physically uncoordinated. Sounds possible to me! Have you had a chat with his mum. Perhaps you can get help from the school nurse, although I know they are not as accessible as they used to be. Keep observing and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 hi , i have a little boy much the same as you are describing dougal and am thinking along the lines of dyspraxia as well. dyspraxia is also sometimes known as ' clumsy child syndrome'. seems to make more sense under that heading. my little one makes no sound either .not even when he cries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I have tried speaking to parents but they don't want to chat to me- they didn't come to parents evening or his brothers last year when he was in my class. His brother is bright and well coordinated. it is funny you should talk about obsessiveness Linda as this boy is very obsessive especially about trains. School nurse won't come to observe him without parent permission.....but this little boys behaviour is deteriorating and i think it is because he notices the difference between him and the other boys. i sometimes really do not understand parents at all. i have done a quick search on dyspraxia and the symptoms do seem familiar but i am just at a loss as to where to go now? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr thankyou all x dougal xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 We had a child very similar Dougal and parents who also didnt see a problem, mom was NVQ3 so it was definitly a case of not wanting to see, even dad said he didnt want to get involved when we told him things in case it upset mom. In the end we got mom to see how things were due to my SENCO at the time having huge personal problems and taking them out on mom. Not something I recomend for a moment but in our case, although I had to grovel for forgiveness from mom it actually made her take notice. None of this helps you of course, can you access the Health visitor or the school SENCO to give back up? Seems a bit silly to not be allowed to observe without parents permission, dont we do it all the time for planning purposes? Hope you find a way round this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Lets not be too hasty in 'labelling' this child but finding things that might help him. What's his history? Was he premature, did he crawl or possibly shuffle on his bottom, or even go straight to walking. Children who have not crawled have quite possibly not developed the necessary brain connections for left/right movement. In my own experience Brain Gym has helped children with coordination problems. You can search this on the internet, there's a great book called Smart Moves. I also bought a cd and music book with activities in it (by an Australian man) but I've lent it out and can't remember who's got it......... These exercises would benefit all your children and would not draw undue attention to your little boy who is already noticing that he is not like the others. Tread slowly and carefully, do a little research and maybe the parent will be more willing to go with you. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Also read books by Christine Macintyre who writes a lot about movement being clues to other difficulties. She's written some very reader friendly and easy books. I'm sure google will find her for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 My son has mild dyspraxia and when he was in reception he was diagnosed as being 'clumsy'. He has grown out of his clumsiness a lot now (he is now 13) but he has huge problems with organising himself. We had a lot of problems early on in school as his teacher just thought he was lazy as like a lot of children who have dyspraxia he had above average intelligence (level 3's at KS1, 5's at KS2). He just kept 'forgetting' things. It is a very complex condition as there are many different ways it manifests according to the individual child. If you have any concerns I would bring it up with your SENCo as the sooner you could get a diagnosis the sooner you can do things about it. (My son wasn't referred to an ed psych until year 3 - because of this teacher who would not listen to my concerns) I still feel that he had such a horrible time in his infant years at school that this affected many other areas. Anyway sorry if this has turned into a bit of a rant but if it is dyspraxia there are quite often other aspects of learning that he will have difficulty with (e.g. reading from a board, copying writing, following instructions etc) and with a bit of understanding he will have a happier school life. Hope this helps a bit Sue btw When he was tested for clumsiness he was asked to walk on the outsides of his feet. When he did this his hands turned inwards (a bit like an ape) and this was how they could tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 If you would like to know how it feels to be dispraxic try these simple games. Using a pair of binoculars held the wrong way round try walking across a set of stepping stones while looking through them. Or Draw a star on a piece of paper your hands must be covered but you can look at their reflection in a mirror. We played these games on a course I went on, it might give you some understanding of the difficulties they have and how hard they have to work to achieve even the smallest goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) Thankyou to all! I have bitten the bullet and spoken to mum who has allowed me to contact school nurse. senco has not come across dyspraxia before but agrees that his movement needs checking. Mum says he was slow to crawl and has always had problems manipulating things eg. lego she said she just thought he was bow-legged! I will keep you posted on his progress!But thankyou x Dougal x Edited January 26, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Great to hear you've got Mum on board and are now able to discuss the childs needs with senco and school nurse. I have often found that when I sound out a problem or dilemma on the forum, it soon turns around and progress can be made, I really think the forum has magical properties, don't you? Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) Yes Peggy I agree the forum is magical- it's a great sounding board when you come across a 'problem' - it's also good to share practice as well. Big turn around as far as the child is concerned....the child had a really nasty bump on his head I rang his parents to come and get him as his nose and forehead were swollen and his nose was bleeding. His dad said he would be about 2 hours! This is not the first time this has happened- he had stomach pains and a temp of 39 and they turned up 3 hours after being phoned! I rang dad back up and asked him to come as soon as he can or was there anyone else available. He asked me "And what do you expect me to do with him when I do pick him up?" I said that he needed observation and that he would probably have a headache and if he was asking my opinion...if he was my child then i would take him for a quick check up just to be safe. He then said....."So I can bring him back later this afternoon then?" I said no because he would need 1:1 observation and that the effects ofd a headbump can take place hours after the fall. An hour later he picked the child up. (GRUMBLING) On Friday he and his partner dropped the child off and squared up to me....saying how dare I say that his child was struggling with motor control- that his child the day before with a headbump had walked a two inch wide four foot high beam! He shouted in front of all the other parents for no reason.....and then said that my treatment as well as loosing my hair had obviously affected my brain....there really are some very vile parents out there! All I did was ask permission for observations to be made....and the and the enthusiasm the mother had given me to getting help for her child had confirmed my own observations...I never mentioned dyspraxia! i just said the nurse could perhaps give me some fine/gross motor skill exercises that would help her child, I had made it as informal as I could! This all stemmed from me inconveniencing the father when his child was ill! GRRRRRRRRR! Some parents just mystify me! But mine is not to question...mine is just to teach! Dougal xx Wish I could drink right now! Edited January 29, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Oh Dougal Vile parents is understatement of the year! I have read and re read your post and what the Dad said to you is horrific in the extreme I sooooo hope you didn't let it get to you though of course it's easy for me to say that. I hope the magic powers of the forum and my 'cyber hugs' cheer you up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Thankyou Geraldine.....yes the magic powers do help- but yes it did upset me....but the cyber hugs help!!! THANKYOU! I am not looking forward to tomorrow, have a very open door policy with the parents and I don't want to stop this but just for tomorrow i think my cupboard will need my personal attention (hiding) when this child's father comes in! Not sure I am strong enough to face hime again just yet without cracking. x HUG Dougal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblejack Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Oh Dougal how awful for you to have to put up with such a rude parent. Please don't take it to heart. Easy for me to say I know but I have often had it thrown back in my face when I have suggested to a parent that I need their permission to seek extra guidance to help their child. I always log the conversation now so if a parent refuses to co-operate I have covered myself. There may be lots of guilty feeling within this family so the child's father isn't able to make sense of what you are saying. It amazes me now that we have to provide complaints forms with tick boxes for parents to complain about us. One of the first things I see on the Ofsted web page is " How to complain about a provision." How do we complain about a parent ? Take care now my kindest thought are with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posy Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Hi Dougal, Just a very quick 'don't let them get you' sort of message from me. Will be thinking of you tomorrow morning. Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I don't want to offend, and my apologies if I do but after the things that father said to you about your treatment it clearly shows that he has got his head right up his proverbial XXXX Hopefully with this picture in mind you won't take his ignorant comments to heart. BIG HUGS FROM ME TOO Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Ohhhhhh Peggy that made me giggle so much ......................Thankyou thankyou thankyou! Will try and keep that image in my head until 8.45am tomorrow! Thankyou thankyou thankyou....... see that's why the forum is special.........you can be as downhearted, miserable as you want but you come on here and FSF ='Foundation stage fairies' wave their magic wand and all is better! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx Dougal xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I'm glad it helped, I was a bit worried that the picture might offend someone, but I'm glad the good intentions I posted it for, has worked for you. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblejack Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 How did your day go Dougal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelle Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 How did your day go Dougal? 46715[/snapback] Hope you had a better day today Dougal. I love Peggy's picture - I think i might print it off and put it inside my stockcupboard door to look at when such a one comes along to me (and they are sure to as they get everywhere dont they?) x M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi all i have survived! Well to be fair I cheated and hid in the stockroom cupboard! The TA came to my rescue and she greeted the parents this morning...I know it's a chicken way to be but I have felt that fed up about it that had he said something again today I think I would have burst into tears (and damaged my hard as a nut image!!!) When I came home I was a little cross with myself for not being a litle tougher but to be honest I think I am just about managing balancing school treatment and 5 children and anything more just rocks my boat. So for now I am in a happier state of denial thanks to peggy and the forum fairies. I promise I will face the public tomorrow. I was thinking I could slip a comment into my next converation with him along the lines of..."Is that a piece of Andrex tissue I can see on your forehead?" But not sure that would qualify as a professional remark but it would make me smile......any further suggestions for comments most welcome! THANKYOU ALL Dougal xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 hi Dougal, Missed this at the weekend, that parent is very lucky to have you as a teacher, to keep going as you have done is truely amazing, but I hope you have logged and reported the conversation to your head. Meanwhile Big hugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hi all i have survived!Well to be fair I cheated and hid in the stockroom cupboard! The TA came to my rescue and she greeted the parents this morning...I know it's a chicken way to be but I have felt that fed up about it that had he said something again today I think I would have burst into tears (and damaged my hard as a nut image!!!) When I came home I was a little cross with myself for not being a litle tougher but to be honest I think I am just about managing balancing school treatment and 5 children and anything more just rocks my boat. So for now I am in a happier state of denial thanks to peggy and the forum fairies. I promise I will face the public tomorrow. I was thinking I could slip a comment into my next converation with him along the lines of..."Is that a piece of Andrex tissue I can see on your forehead?" But not sure that would qualify as a professional remark but it would make me smile......any further suggestions for comments most welcome! THANKYOU ALL Dougal xxx 46741[/snapback] Going into the cupboard is NOT CHEATING, it is called not suffering fools gladley. Love your comment, made me smile, don't think I could come up with a better one. As for the child, is the school SENCO giving any support? You look after yourself, then you can be there for ALL the children in your class, and delegate the childs needs to other support staff in the school until you feel up to taking the challenge on board again. Rome wasn't built in a day and changing (parents) attitudes takes even longer than building a city. Take care. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Dougal, I've only just read all this, why do people think they can be horrid to others? Too much of it about I think. Hope the rest of the week goes smoothly, chances are the dad is feeling a bit silly now and probably just as worried about meeting you again. Love the Andrex comment Peggy, I loved the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Oh poor you...parents eh! (oops, I'm one now - hence why I haven't been on the forum for a while - but I am still alive and well. ) We have now got a new computer & broadband, so though I would pop in to see how things were going! This topic interested me as I have come across many dyspraxic children during teaching. I am so suprised that your ENCO hasn't? Anyway, thought I'd add my thoughts to the discussion...! Whilst you seem to have managed to get the ball rolling I thought I would make a suggestion that you fill out a movement assessment sheet (we have hard copies at school - but I am sure you will be able to find some if you search the net, or perhaps someone else out there has a computer friendly version?). Anyway, if you do one of these assessments and also ask the parents to fill one out based on their judgements, it may help you to get further support & advice on how to help this child. As someone mentioned earlier, brain gym is great. I have had dyspraxic children in my class and they have made huge progress using brain gym. The Norfolk County Council has a website with some brain gym exercises that you can print off - although the reception ones are limited. It's definitely something I would focus on. You could do it with the whole class as they enjoy it and it benefits everyone. Hope You are having a better week this week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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