Staffing Issue

[Guest]

Hi

 

I have a Nursery Nurse who is a very good practitioner but who likes to think she runs the place. I am the nursery teacher and was appointed this term - she has been there since the place opened, along with the previous teacher (not too many years ago) so understandably feels it is 'her' nursery as she helped develop it. I appreciate that and also feel for her in that I am making some changes - physical, curriculum and routines that are quite different but I am discussing these with her and on the surface she is vary adaptable.

 

However she clearly doesn't agree with some of the changes - for instance today I was giving some stickers out ( she does NOT approve of stickers) and in front of the children she sat there shaking her head and would not praise or even smile at those who got one. I did something else today and she turned to the student and raised her eyebrows and pulled a face. She feels the nursery is very noisy this year but we have double the children she is used to as it is now one session not two! In my opinion it is acceptable noise but she will keep telling other staff how loud it gets - arghh, looks terrible on me!

 

She keeps telling me what we are doing next half term/for Christmas etc, that we will go a walk tomorrow etc etc. I can deal with these in planning but it is getting tiring.

 

The biggest grind I have today is that she was doing carpet time at the end and I said I was going to open the doors for parents (it was end of session time and she had finished her story and discussion) - her reply? "No, not yet, I'll tell you when"! I was flabbergasted! IN the end they were late out.

 

I haven't had time to deal with this because I had to go to a meeting immediately the session ended.

 

Am I being picky here do you think? I do value the way she is with the children - she is very good. I involve her in planning and ask for ideas (although I get told 'WE (who?) don't do it like that, we have always done so and so). I have made good use of her talents - e.g she can sing, I can't!

 

I've just read all this back and it all seems niggly little things but at the moment the niggly little things are getting to me - not helped by having a stinking cold, conjunctivitis and mouth ulcers!!

 

We have had the same number of years experience and are about the same age but because I have a had a few years 'out' she treats me like a student.

 

Just needed to get this off my chest but any suggestions would be great, I would like us to work well together

 

Thanks!

[Marion]

Hi

 

I have a Nursery Nurse who is a very good practitioner but who likes to think she runs the place. I am the nursery teacher and was appointed this term - she has been there since the place opened, along with the previous teacher (not too many years ago) so understandably feels it is 'her' nursery as she helped develop it. I appreciate that and also feel for her in that I am making some changes - physical, curriculum and routines that are quite different but I am discussing these with her and on the surface she is vary adaptable.

 

However she clearly doesn't agree with some of the changes - for instance today I was giving some stickers out ( she does NOT approve of stickers) and in front of the children she sat there shaking her head and would not praise or even smile at those who got one.  I did something else today and she turned to the student and raised her eyebrows and pulled a face. She feels the nursery is very noisy this year but we have double the children she is used to as it is now one session not two! In my opinion it is acceptable noise but she will keep telling other staff how loud it gets - arghh, looks terrible on me! 

 

She keeps telling me what we are doing next half term/for Christmas etc, that we will go a walk tomorrow etc etc. I can deal with these in planning but it is getting tiring.

 

The biggest grind I have today is that she was doing carpet time at the end and I said I was going to open the doors for parents  (it was end of session time and she had finished her story and discussion) - her reply? "No, not yet, I'll tell you when"! I was flabbergasted! IN the end they were late out.

 

I haven't had time to deal with this because I had to go to a meeting immediately the session ended.

 

Am I being picky here do you think? I do value the way she is with the children - she is very good. I involve her in planning and ask for ideas (although I get told 'WE (who?) don't do it like that, we have always done so and so). I have made good use of her talents - e.g she can sing, I can't!

 

I've just read all this back and it all seems niggly little things but at the moment the niggly little things are getting to me - not helped by having a stinking cold, conjunctivitis and mouth ulcers!!

 

We have had the same number of years experience and are about the same age but because I have a had a few years 'out' she treats me like a student.

 

Just needed to get this off my chest but any suggestions would be great, I would like us to work well together

 

Thanks!

37849[/snapback]

 

 

It's NOT niggly! Perhaps you could have a quiet word and say how you appreciate her input but............... you need to take on changes and would she help YOU to implement these.

 

PS What has she got against stickers? Children love them!

[Sue R]

Sorry if I'm being dense, but are you a school or a DN? I work in a DN which has a teacher within the pre-school unit, which is why I'm asking, as the issues are different

From what you say, it just sounds like she's been there so long the routine etc are like 'old shoes' and she feels a bit uncomfortable with change?

 

Don't feel happy saying anything else until I know the situation,

 

Sue

[Guest]

Marion - thanks for even reading to the end! Don't know why she is so against stickers but I intend to find out when we meet tomorrow as I can't take the looks of disapproval much longer. You should have seen one little boy's face today He even forgot to get his coat in the rush to show his mum - aww.

 

 

Sue, I am a school nursery in a primary school. My husband (an advisor) was in another nursery today where her friend works and the staff said they had heard all about me and that was all they would say - I dread to think! I have also heard today that the previous teacher liked to rule with a rod of iron and only did things 'her way' so I think the NN is seeing it as an opportunity to make her mark so to speak which I can understand. I am not like the previous teacher and have always worked as a very good team which is what I want here. Ultimately though , with her input of course, overall responsibility is down to me - from the odd comment from the head this is what she has difficulty with.

 

Thanks again!

Edited September 14, 2005 by Guest

[mundia]

Hi megsmum, its difficult when you are te newcomer in a very established place and sadly we cant always please the poeple we work with. Id arrnage a meeting with her, along the lines Marion has said, and talk to her about how much you value her input but that you are going to make changes, you appreaciate that she is explaning how things have been done in teh past etc etc, but you are here now and you want to make changes that will benefit the chidlren which is after all why you are both there.

 

let us know how it goes..

[Guest]

Hi

I'm a NN / TA who works in a school, and I don't think you're being picky or niggly. We had a new teacher last year (NQT) who is fantastic, and we all work well as a team. I remember her saying when she had been to a NQT meeting how many other people had TA's etc who were just as you described. So you aren't alone!

Obviously this person is used to doing things in a certain way and it can be hard to not make comparisons and to do things differently - there have been times when I have inadvertently thought 'last year.....worked better' but I have tried not to and have left making suggestions until we chat after school, or in a meeting.

Can't give you much advice on how to deal with it apart from a meeting and giving it to her straight - you could maybe ask if there are any changes she would like to see (but that may be opening another can of worms!)

Good Luck

Jo

[Susan]

Hi megsmum, cant offer you much advise other than what others have suggested but you do have my sympathy.

I have worked in a school, as a teacher, where the attitude was we do it this way, which can be very difficult and I have worked with NNs, who although excellent in their own ways were obstructive to change. Sometimes, you can only lead by example and hope that the others will follow suit, but that is difficult. I know you have not been in the nursery for very long and perhaps your NN feels threatened by the changes you are making. I hope that you will find that by meeting with her and explaining to her your rationale and what you want to achieve and asking her for her help you will be able to form a close and working team.

Good luck.

[Guest]

Hi megsmum,

Difficult situation and I do empathise. When I bought my preschool the previous owner had been there for 30 years For nearly six months later all I heard was "well Beryl did it this way......."

 

Is it just the two of you, or are there more in your team?

 

I struck a balance ( as much as I could) I prioritised what needed changing.

All important but the most important I implemented straight away, the other less priority issues I asked the staff to come up with ideas and we agreed goals together.

Also, I gave each member of staff a particular area and role to be responsible for ie: Sally- art area ( including complete a full inventory, produce a wish list etc etc) and she also became Health Officer - (with a remit to produce a health newsletter for parents ie: Nora nit and larry louse dambuster programme) another job to create Health monitoring systems within the preschool.

 

With all this work they didn't have time to worry about what I was doing and they gained a sense of achievement when they reported THEIR changes within their area's which they wanted to have considered. ( shoe on the other foot, so to speak).

 

Good luck, and hopefully she will partake in sensible, professional negotiation with you, with respect to your leadership position.

 

p.s. I would be very cross if I heard that staff in another Nursery were discussing me and I would certainly challenge her professional ethics regarding Confidentiality. This is something I make clear to all my staff, I will not tolerate breach of confidentiality.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

You are not being niggly AT ALL!

I am an NN and took over a preschool last September. I had never worked in a team let alone run a preschool! I have nannied, helped at just about every preschool establisment going, run music froups, kids parties and been an NVQ assessor - all fairly independent jobs. I was terrified and so can relate to you in the 'wanting to make changes but with the support of the staff' way!

As I very nearly became a teacher myself (long story...) I can imagine that your NN feels that she could so easily do your job and probably resents having somebody in charge that she views as equal (or even below!) her.

 

HOWEVER I cannot believe she is being so unprofessional! I would never say to a member of staff 'I'll tell you when!' let alone my 'superior'. As for sharing looks with students

 

Do you have to give her supervision sessions/appraisals? I would note these things down as I'm sorry but she gives the rest of us a bad name!! I would be inclined to (after doing what has been suggested before I mean if that didn't work) to actually broach the subject quite boldly nad tell her you've seen the faces she pulls nad you don't appreciate it at all. Remind her it isn't professional and ask her how she would feel if you belittled her in front of the parents.

Oh dear I'm off on a rant again, so sorry!

[Gezabel]

Oh dear what an awkward situation and no you are certainly not being niggly!

 

I wonder whether, good though she may be, whether in fact your NN is actually a little insecure and it is coming out in what appears to be dominating behaviour?

 

Having been there so long and being familiar with routines perhaps she now feels her postion/job is threatened by your arrival and the changes happening around her.

 

She seems to have a need to hang on to 'what was' instead of embracing new ideas and moving forward.

 

I think a meeting with her asap is needed and I would start by picking up on her good points, raising her confidence and how you look forward to working with her for a long time to come etc and then sensitively deal with the 'BUTS' she should know, but maybe needs reminding that she cannot undermine you. You and her need to present a united front to the children and the incident of not liking stickers is a prime example. She should have been enthusing over the children's happiness and pride in their achievement whether she approves of stickers or not. As for telling you not to open the doors I was speechless!!!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Peggy's comment about her professionalism or should I say lack of it and I really think that needs addressing - the staff in the other nursery incident is simply not on! The raising eyebrows and pulling faces at the student is also unacceptable, how long before the children notice and what a bad example to the student!!

 

Sorry this is probably no help at all but hope sharing your frustration here helps and that things improve for you soon

do let us know how it goes

 

good luck!

[Guest]

Hi there Megsmum! I totally sympathise with you, as I was exactly where you are, last term. I too thought I was being pinickity about little things, but all those little things add up, and it sounds like some of your issues aren't even that little. I muscled in on a posting called Sand Hats in Accreditation, if you want to read about my NN probs, but basically it was a very similar situation: inappropriate behaviour/comments in front of children & parents, an 'it's always been like this' attitude and so on. I came to blows with my NN on 2 occasions & meetings with her weren't terribly useful. That said, so far this term we seem to be ok; I don't think we'll ever be friends, but we've reached some kind of understanding. However, I am continually on my guard as I think we will always have a volatile relationship; this doesn't make for an easy life, but at least at the moment we are a united front to the children and we don't have the atmosphere that we did last term, which was completely unprofessional.

 

If ever you want to chat or just rant or whatever, please send me a personal message and I'll be only too pleased to help out in whatever way I can: I know it's an awful situation to be in, so I'll be thinking of you and wish you well.

[Guest]

Hi update here

 

Things are getting a little better - funnily enough a discussion about people being in charge arose incidentally when we were chatting about PPA time and the use of cover supervisors. She brought up the fact that they get paid much less than a teacher and that "that's why people like you are in charge, you have more pay and all the responsibility - not something I would want - I'm quite happy doing what I'm doing."!! I agreed with her and said that sometimes making those decisions was difficult, especially coming into a new situation with 'old' staff but that everyhting I did was, in my opinion, for the benefit of the children.

She also told me she had been discussing me with other staff in the context of how different teachers do things in different ways and about herself having to adapt so we discussed that for a while.

 

Tomorrow we are going to do some planning together - I have told her I have an outline for the year but I would like her input within those 'topics' - that way, I control the main curriculum but she can still have a valuable input (if you get me)

 

There are still one or two niggly things popping up and it's not all roses yet but she seems a little more amienable now - time will tell I suppose!!

 

Many Many thanks for all your support and suggestions , I will keep referring to them.

[Guest alisonjayne]

sounds like a break through, good luck with the planning and keep us posted as to how it all goes.

Ali

[Guest]

hi all,

 

dont know if this will help, but i used to be "The one who likes it her way" well, that how other staff saw me.

since doing the foundation degree i have become much more encouraging to the other staff and in regards to reflecting on best practice for the setting. maybe she could do with updating her own personal development skills like i did!!! dont think it would be a good idea to tell her that though!

 

my excuse was allway "because the standards say so or thats what ofsted expect" and so on. but at the end of the day, we all have to work as a team, and know i have learnt that i can manage my staff much more efficientley when we all work towards the same goals.

 

and as for stickers, ive always used them. its such a simple way to encourage and praise the children even if they get them for something really small, they know they have pleased you and will continue to do so.

 

i hope things improve, but carry on with your ideas, as thats what makes us all such great practitioners.