Helen Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 What is your experience in recording children's achievements during the classroom session? Will your methods change as a result of the FSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueFinanceManager Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I achieved my NVQ3 in childcare in November 2002 and so consider myself somewhat of a 'novice' still. I find the whole process of assessment very hard as my knowledge of the new 'Foundation Stage Profile' is limited. Assessments take me a long time as I am reading a section of the FSP and trying to see a child doing that section, as oppose to watching a child and then marking off the areas he/she has covered. Does anyone else feel that their lack of experience makes the process of filling in the FSP just a bit daunting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Sue - Welcome and thanks for registering with the Foundation Stage Forum. I'm going to pass on this - you might feel inexperienced but you're more qualified than me in terms of NVQ's! I think Helen might well want to come back to you though - and I'm sure there are many others in your position - if you haven't done so yet, you can click the 'track this topic' button, which will notify you of any responses to your post. Thanks again for joining the Foundation Stage Forum! Regards, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Sue, Observing and assessing very young children is such a huge issue at the moment, and I don't think there is just one method which works. We think about observation in our setting in three ways: (1) The "catch-as-you-can"; where you notice a child's significant achievement, scribble it down (that's a whole other issue-where do you scribble it down?!) and then record it in the Stepping Forward Profiles, or Foundation Stage profiles, or whatever your setting is using. (2) Planned assessment; where you plan a specific activity in order to assess a small group of children, e.g. "can use number names in order" (3) A timed assessment: perhaps a fifteen observation opportunity, tracking a child and writing down significant development. One member of staff at my setting suggested she used a Dictophone to record orally her observations, rather than writing them down at the time. Excellent idea, and I hope we can try that in the near future! Recommended reading is "Tracking Significant Achievement in the Early Years", by Vicky Hutchin. I would welcome other suggestions from foundation stage practitioners, too. What methods of observation do you use? How do you find the time to record the children's development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hello everyone - This is my first post, and I'm so excited about this site, so here goes! I am TRYING to write my Reflective Study for my NVQ Level 4 EYCE. It is between 5000-7500 words along and I have chosen to write about the assessment process. I would like people's opinion on the Foundation Stage Profile, but more importantly what effect this may or may not have on the Pre-School assessment process. I am particularly looking for negative responses, as I have to provide an arguement! I would really appreciate anyone responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Don't worry about being newly qualified I am an NNEB with years of experience and I still have trouble dealing with the stepping stones and finding time to fill in the childrens profiles. I have brought work home with me for do in half term because I am feeling bogged down with paperwork at work. What happened to good old fashioned 'play' children learn so much through play and I really feel that they lose out sometimes because the adults are struggling with all the paperwork. What does anyone else think ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hi, I totally agree! When I started working in a nursery just four years ago, we were able to just play with the children, making a mental note of significant achievements, things they particularly liked doing, and hilarious sayings such as "My Mum says when I eat and talk at the same time I look like a cement mixer!" When Mums, Dads, Grandmas, etc. came to pick up the children, an oral comment about their morning was sufficient and welcome. We didn't spend the now recommended 20% of the time observing and recording the children's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hi Becky/Sue -I think you're both trying to alter the appearance of your posts by using the style panel. When you do this you need to select the text before you click on the buttons, or you end up with the text 'tags' sitting at the top or bottom of your panel and the style unchanged. For example, I want this sentence to be red and bigger than the rest of the message, so I first type it, then highlight the sentence, then click the colour and size dropdown boxes. Hope this helps! Regards, Steve. Thanks ever so much, Steve. Hopefully I've got it right this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hi,I totally agree! When I started working in a nursery just four years ago, we were able to just play with the children, making a mental note of significant achievements, things they particularly liked doing, and hilarious sayings such as "My Mum says when I eat and talk at the same time I look like a cement mixer!" When Mums, Dads, Grandmas, etc. came to pick up the children, an oral comment about their morning was sufficient and welcome. We didn't spend the now recommended 20% of the time observing and recording the children's development. Thanks for your comments about whether we should be assessing or not! I would dearly love to spend more time just enjoying the children. OFSTED has alos put a lot of pressures on us, hasn't it, although I am an NVQ Assessor and unfortunately I do see an awful lot of Privately Run Nursery settings - who arn't visited by OFSTED. The standard of care here is not always the best. I wouldn't say that this is always the case but often so. I am still asking for everyone's opinion on the new assessment process - so please anyone, get your soap boxes out, I'd love to hear from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 How can privately run nurseries not be Ofsted inspected? Is it because they are not registered for the Nursery Education Grant, or is there some other loophole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I wish it was just 20% of the time I spent observing and recording its more like 90% !! I'm fed up with all the paperwork at the end of the day the children want you to play and read stories etc etc not spend all your time saying wait a minute cos you've got to write things down. Children spend years in time leave playgroups to do what they do best PLAY !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueFinanceManager Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hi Helen/Becky Thanks Helen for your suggestions. I am fortunate to work in a nursery setting where we are given a chance to try different ideas and so will raise some of your suggestions at our next staff meeting. You refer to the 'scribble it down' method. This is a valuable method but walls can begin to look like 'post it note graveyards'. The time consumed in writing and then re-writing the information is vast. I find if I don't transfer the information quite quickly from the scribbled note it can be difficult to remember other aspects of the child's performance that could be relevant. BECKY you might be particularly interested in this last bit. I work in East Sussex and we are trialing the local authority's version of the FSP that becomes statatory in Sept' 03. The profiles we are using will be given to the parents at the end of the summer term. They can then decide if they pass it on to the reception teacher or not. In principle this appears to be a good idea and I'm sure for some people it is great. I however find the responsibility of filling these in quite scary. I attended a 2 hour training course given by the local autority which explained the layout of the books. We were shown how they mirrored the stepping stones and ELG's of the foundation stage. For more experienced people filling them in may proove fairly straight forward, but surely I'm not the only person in East Sussex who doesn't know how and when I'm going to get them done. I want to do them properly not just 'guesstimate' stuff. I don't want to have to take stuff home all half-term (HOTGOSS I empathise) If the key to good observation/assessment is to know the FSP inside out then surely we need more training and support to help us achieve this.Afterall these FSP's have got to be done well or teachers will just disregard them. These books should represent our practise and knowledge of our children and therefore need to be of a high professional standard. I'm sorry to have gone on abit but I think you touched a nerve !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 How are the new profiles different are they any easier to fill in. Am I the only person who doesn't understand the way some of the stepping stones are worded. Does anyone have enough time in the day to get all the paperwork done. How many keyworker children do you all have ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Crikey Hotgoss - A damburst of questions! I can't answer them but I'm sure there are people contributing to this topic who can. In the meantime, it might be a good thing to let the current members know a bit about yourself and what you do - either in the miscellaneous introductions forum, or in the interests part of your personal profile. It could help make any advice more relevant to your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Hi Sue, Thanks ever so much for your opinion on the assessment process (you defaintely didn't write too much), I need all the opinion I can get, and thanks to everyone else who has responded too. Like I thought, you all feeling very similar to me regarding the entire subject - not enough time to enjoy the children and let them play freely!!??!! Specifically to all you teachers out there, what do you really think of the new FSP, I have created a questionnaire which I am going distribute to some local schools regarding the new system, but just thought I'd open it up to anyone here? Is the system going to be used in any of your pre-school/nursery setting's too? With regard to Nurseries not being OFSTED'ed, if you are not funded by the government i.e. Vouchers, then you can please yourself - this applies to Private schools as well. You don't have to have a full teaching qualification to teach in private schools in some cases either. I love this forum - isn't it great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 We each have between 6 and 10 keyworker children whose records we maintain. This number is dependent on how many days per week each member of staff works. We also add comments on other people's keyworker children if we notice something significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I'm currently trying to make the 20% observation time manageable in my Reception Class. I used to use tracking sheets for each focus activity we did so I've just adapted it to target specific children at specific times eg, 'Mungo' and 'Mary' on Monday's writing focus- jotting down on a pre-prepared obs sheet relating to the task. I also have poly pockets stuck around various strategic places in the classroom filled with blank observation sheets for 'on the spot recording' eg, 1 in the role play area, one next to the book corner etc. This is so adults can continue to play/engage with children and have a sheet and pencil close to hand to jot any gems down without leaving the child. I haven't resorted to following children around the class with a clip board yet or wearing a tiara as suggested on the 'Foundation Stage Profile' training video. LOL. I'll see how it goes. The profile booklets haven't even arrived in schools yet and were all getting a little jittery at the thought of only having one term to complete them. The booklets will be shown to parents on parent's evenings and at the end of year and I'm kind of worried for my less able kids when their parents can so easily see how 'Midge' has got hardly any ticks compared to their friend's son 'Hector'. I think the good old personalised written reports were much friendlier Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Hi Jen, Thanks for the reply. I have yet to see the new booklets either, and will be interested when they arrive. Your written observation sheets were presumably not shown to parents, but they had the bigger picture of how their child was progressing - is that correct? The 20% observation is what they are recommending is it? That is a massive amount if this is so - a whole day a week in total. How do you feel about the length expected for observations. Do you imagine you'll be able to give up that much time from teaching?! It's a real can of worms at the minute, isn't it? Where are you based? Anyone else seen the booklets yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I have just been looking around the QCA website at the sample booklets for Foundation Stage Profiles, they look very glossy - no doubt they cost a packet to create. They are very friendly looking though, I was quite impressed. I wonder if this design will feed back to the begin of foundation stage. I would love to see the standardisation of the assessment process, right accross the foundation stage. What do you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Hi Becky, Yes, we're definately expected to observe for 20% of the time. Not all of this will mean standing in the corner with a clipboard (wearing that tiara!) telling children 'not to bother you because you're observing', but also as you play and work alongside the children too. I'm am very worried about how I am going to find time to hear all of the children read each week. I find it hard enough now! I also worry about how much time I will spend transferring the information I've recorded onto the booklets. The parents don't get to see the observation sheets. As soon as I've scribbled down on one it gets posted into a box, which is emptied every day. I keep those notes away from parents who might be helping out too. (they love doing a bit of detective work around the class ) I've seen one of the booklets on the Foundation Stage Profile course . They look relatively easy to fill in. You just tick a box for where they're at and only write in significant comments of achievment-nothing negative gets written in. It's the amount I'll have to fill in that's scary (30) !!!! Honestly though I think it will all be fine once we get used to it, just like everything else. Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 are these new booklets just for schools or are they for pre-schools too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Hi Hotgoss, The foundation Stage Profile booklets are for Reception Teachers to fill in. Pre-schools in East Sussex will be filling in a booklet called 'Stepping Forward' which list the stepping stones towards the Early learning Goals. This is not a national thing- a sytem devised by E. Sussex LEA, but I'm sure something National will happen soon. The booklets filled in by Pre-schools will be given to parents when their child leaves nursery and hopefully they will pass it on to their child's new reception teacher once they start school, who will use the assessments made at the beginning. They then start completing the new Foundation stage Profile booklet based on that info and their own assessments. It's a shame that the 'Stepping Forward' booklets will not be passed directly to schools as I'm sure some parents will either loose the booklet or not pass it on at all. Hope this clarifies things? Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 I think that as this is the first "trialling" year for the Stepping Forward profiles in East Sussex, ownership of the resulting profiles should be with the parents. Maybe next year, if it becomes a requirement for pre-schools to undertake completion of the profiles, we could pass them straight onto the reception teachers. It does seem sensible for all reception teachers to have the same format of recording children's achievements from all pre-schools and nurseries, doesn't it? I know that the FSPs will require moderation during the summer term, but I wonder how that could work if pre-schools have to complete their own profiles? Presumably they would need to be moderated too....What a massive undertaking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I think it would be a good step forward in the assessment process, if there was a standard form for Pre-School's. At present it is different in every setting you go to and the information is not usually used by the reception class teacher, when the child moves on to primary school. I feel quite cross that all the assessments we do on the children in my setting, although we pass them on, are not used, as the teacher feels she needs to make up her own mind! With a standard booklet, for everyone this could be used. Down here in Devon, Torbay have a Passport of assessments which goes with the child from one setting to another. As my setting is situated outside of Torbay (Teignbridge) then we don't have this luxery. Yes, I'm all for it filtering down to pre-school, to take out the guess work and create valid useful assessments would make it far more satisfying to me! I would love to have a look at these assessment books for E. Sussex - anybody got a sneak preview I could snitch at?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Hi, What a great site and very much needed. In response to everyone who mentioned scribbling down on notes, what used to happen in a Nursery I used to work in a few years ago (am now working in a different Nursery) we had post it notes, which we used to write achievements of the children onto and various other bits of information, we then put these notes into an A4 plastic sleeve which was attached to the back of the classroom door, the plastic A4 sleeve was covered by a sheet of A4 paper so Parents etc could not see what was inside the sleeve. On the A4 sheet of paper was printed each staff members name,(each member of staff had their own plastic sleeve) so all staff knew which key worker children would be in the plastic sleeve. This helped when a member of staff was absent or at anytime when other staff other than the keyworker caught a child achieveing a specific outcome, we were all allocated time at the end of each day to transfer the information onto the recording outcome files. We also exchanged info for example, if we thought a child was not their usual self, if the mum was pregnant, how the child reacts when the main keyworker is not around, and many more things. Hope that all makes sense, may be useful, may not. I will be reading the FSP next week, as I have only recently been made aware of the changes. Wish me luck, seems I might need it. Lava40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 15, 2003 Author Share Posted March 15, 2003 Hi Lava40; welcome to the site You had some great ideas, there, about plastic wallets to drop observation notes into. Thanks. I think this method might suit us better, and I'll suggest it to my colleagues. At the moment, we have paper with each keyworker and children listed stuck on the wall in strategic places, but this isn't very confidential! Do you carry around the post-it notes, or are they dotted about the place? Hope you use the site lots and get a great deal from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Hello Helen, It's great that you found my reply useful. We kept our post it notes in our tabbourd pockets, if you do not wear a tabbourd then any pocket will do, or maybe a suggested area to leave your post it notes, then comes the problem of leaving one area to go and get the post it notes!!! Lava40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Hi I am also concerned about the sheer number of observation needed to fill in the Foundation Stage Profiles I have been told by my head that i have to also write reports as the FSP language is not suitable for parents. What about the extra workload let alone no time to actually teach anything especially if you habe a challenging class who need lots of intervention to make sure they don't fight. Sally Stocker Reception class teacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 I do not feel that the FSP language is unsuitable for parents. It appears simple enough to me, Parents are perfectly capable to be provided with a handout to describe the FSP, I am surprised that the head feels this way. It is crazy having to complete the FSP and then go on to write reports in addition to translate the same information. I thought that the FSP was a fairly simple (if time consuming) system - does anyone else have an opinion on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hi Becky, I met up with several reception class teachers yesterday, and many have not been informed by their heads whether or not they are going to have to do reports to parents in addition to the FSPs. I suppose the main problem is if the FSPs go home, then the Year 1 teachers don't get to see them. Perhaps there should have been carbon-copy sheets built in. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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