Variety Of Models For Foundation Stage Units

[Susan]

As you are so small, can you not have group times with different focus activities to accomodate your differentiation and age groups?

 

I worked on supply in a nursery class recently where the teacher and the nursery nurse rotated weekly between the 2 groups very successfully. This was a nursery class where admission to reception was on a termly basis and so essentially was a unit. The older children (Reception year) stayed all day and the younger ones (and some were not yet 4) were part time.

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

I've been following this discussion with great interest for a few days. We have recently been told that from January we will have 32 Reception children and our Head has asked us (Rec + Nursery teachers) to find a solution.

 

He was thinking along the lines of putting 2 children in with a Y1 class (!) but we're thinking that a unit would be the better solution. So we would have 30 Nursery children (in each session) + 32 Reception children with 2 teachers and 3 NNEBs.

 

So we'd be within our LEA guidelines of 1:13 for Nursery children but what about the 2 extra Reception children, won't they effectively be in a class larger than 30? Does it matter how the registers are organised? Who has to call the register? I know Nursery Nurses can register Nursery children because their attendance is non-statutory, but can 1 teacher register 32 Reception children? Or would we have to split the Reception register between 2 teachers?

 

We can easily knock down a wall to make our environment fit the bill but I'm so CONFUSED about this tricky stuff to do with numbers. Does anyone have any advice please?? I hope so because this is doing my head in.

 

Love J

[Susan]

Sounds like a good solution to me, but dont know how you stand re numbers and ratios if your nursery is that full too. I certainly wouldnt want to be the unlucky child to be put in with year yr1 or the parent.

 

However, perhaps you are only stalling for a year and the problem will still exist in September 2006--yr1 will then be oversubscribed? How has this happened? Perhpas you all need to look towards more evenly splitting yrR and yr1 into 2 mixed classes?

 

I'd prefer the first option though as the teacher.

Good luck.

[Guest]

Thanks for reply susan.

We are a 60 place Nursery (30 + 30) and our school entry is 45, so far we have had 2 smallish Reception classes feeding into KS1 with 3 classes to accommodate Years 1 and 2.

From January 2006 we'll have 32 Reception children and it's those extra 2 that are causing the headache. We think that OFSTED would be more keen on a FSU than at Rec/Y1 mix, and we think it would be easier from the curriculum point of view. But I'm just not sure about how we square the rights of all reception children to be in a class of no more than 30 if we're proposing a Foundation unit of 62 with only 2 teachers (plus 3 NNEBs). What is the legislation/guidelines regarding registration groups and who actually calls the register for Reception children? Does anybody know? Does it matter? (I suspect it only matters when you-know-who-and-I-don't-mean-voldemort pops in).

Please help.

Love J

[Guest]

Unfortunately or fortunately the government has removed all obstacles to staff other than teachers taking registration groups or for that matter teaching the whole class. As long as there is a qualified teacher somewhere on the premises then your reception class could be taken by a nursery nurse!

Obviously that is not desirable but since with your staffing you have 5 staff and 62 children you should look at it as a ratio of below 1:13 across the unit. Personally I would ask your head for a teaching assistant as well to make your ratio closer to 1:10 which is a much more manageable amount. THe real question is why your head is admitting 32 children to reception class? Is it just a one off? NUT and government agree that 30 is the largest sensible number in a class but there actually are no legal limits. Scary isn't it?

[Magenta]

We have had similar problems with reducing numbers, unfortunately as our 'standard number' is 60 we have to take any extra children even it that means over 30 in a class.

[Guest]

We have had similar problems with reducing numbers, unfortunately as our 'standard number' is 60 we have to take any extra children even it that means over 30 in a class.

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Hi

I have recently been on a training course regarding setting up a foundation stage unit, and there are some serious concerns about numbers of reception and nursery children together. They suggest no more than 70 children in one session, thinking of providing adequate toilets and facilities. It is suggested that there would be 2 teachers and 2 teaching assistants, but teachers are generally worried that these units will be run with 1 teacher and more support staff which is very concerning. I am the reception teacher and we are setting up a unit, to be ready for January 2006. If any one has any advice, stories, support etc it would be greatefully appreciated. Thanks from Becky

[mundia]

Hi there becky, welcome on board and thankyou for your first post.

I hope you have have come across Anne O'connor's super articles on Fs units?

The second one can be found here

 

sadly i cant locate the first one, but Im sure our other member will.

 

I agree that there seems to be some thought along the lines of needing less teachers for this kind of settng, which is all a bit of a nonsense. It cetainly happened in one of the units I worked in, and I think this is a major consideration when going down this route. make sure your head is on board for it to really work. This will pay dividends later.

[Sue R]

nowRight, I'm hoping this will link to the first one - here

 

OK, so it's back to front!!

 

Sue

[Beau]

Nice try though Sue! (And welcome Beckyann )

[Sue R]

Welcome Beckyanne, and Carol

 

Sue

[Guest]

Hi Andryoyd

Thanks for kick-starting this discussion again. Our entry is 45; for the last few years we've had 2 reception classes but this year economics dictate just 1 reception teacher (the previouis entries have reached KS2 and demand an extra class teacher so, oh what a surprise, guess who miss out!).

You're right about the legal aspect, I believe that in law only the headteacher has to be qualified - we're undefined teaching assistants. From Sept we will be operating with 1:15 or below with Rec children and 1:10 or below with Nursery. But, as you say, it'll be 1:13 or below throughout, so that's OK. But from January we'll be in a pickle if HTeacher doesn't appoint another TA as has been promised.

Now, today, I've learnt that one of my new NNs will be playing the piano for school hymn practise (I should have realised this) during what would usually be her (Foundation) lunch time so will be expecting to take her 1 hour lunch time into the beginning of our 2nd Nursery session. I know she's not actually entitled to 1hr for lunch but who's going to tell her otherwise? HT says I can susbtitute, but it falls in the middle of our Nursery focussed activity/small group time! OH BH. I'll have to change the time table for that day. Any suggestions?

Love J

[Guest]

'undefined' should read 'all'.

[Guest]

Hello!!! not logged on to this site for absolutely AGES-anyway, much stress of fs profiles, usual end of year hecticness and a lovely 6 weeks holiday later I'm back and wanting to know how you're all getting on with your fs units. (as last post on this one was July think we've all been in a similar boat)

My main worry at the moment is the big O word (we're definitely due one soon) and I want to utilise our time to the best of our abilities (how do you allocate all those jobs when the ordinary day to day running of the place takes up all our time and energy?) Also, are you integrating children for teaching sessions/family groups and if so does it work?How do you cover the curriculum? (we keep nursery and reception separate for carpet sessions) I must re-read Anne O'connors articles again....they didn't take breaks and thats a bit of an issue for us at the moment (one of our nursery nurses says she doesn't get paid to work through her morning break) anyway, just thought i'd try and kick start a debate again. Looking forward to your replies (hopefully!)

Zim

[Guest]

You must all be too busy to reply!! Oh well!

[mundia]

As you say Zim, I expect lots of people are busy with the start of term.

 

Have you sat down as a team and reviewed what you do so far, what works and what doesnt?

 

When I worked in a unit (I dont anymore) we had separate carpet sessions for N/R although we were quite flexible about this with varying pupil needs. But we had mixed family groups for snack times, story times etc and this worked very well.

What matters for when OFSTED come (we are waiting too) is that you know where you are at and where you are going. Know what your issues are and how you are going to deal with them. Do you have an action plan for your unit?

 

In terms of breaks, this is a hot potato isnt it? Your TAs are not actually entitled to a break other than lunch, which can be as little as 30 min. Breaks are more of a school tradition rather than an actual entitlement (unless anyone can correct me on this, this is my understanding anyway). I believe if they worked anywhere else they have to work 4 hours before a break becomes entitlement.

 

However, having said that, we do try and make sure everyone has a break in the mornings, as well as 45 min for lunch. This is difficult and ive spent hours pouring over rotas in the past week to make evrything 'fair'. One alternative that we have considered is that certain people forego breaks on certain days, which in most schools is what teaching staff do...if you are on playground duty, you dont get a break.. Would that work for you?

[Susan]

Its very difficult when members of the team start getting stroppy, not only in resolving the issue in hand but in making sure that it does not become a festering sore. In my experience breaks are a real bone of contention and I was told by my head that it was only with her good will that the NN and TAs had a break. I also found that as team leader I was often waylaid on my break which led to some hard feelings as others thought i was out of the classroom for too long, in reality I actually probably had less of a break than they did.

 

As Mundia says the notion of a break time is often associated with the traditional stop mid morning for playtime, but in the nursery where I am on supply and in all the nurseries I have worked in, breaks do not exist.

Hot drinks may be made or brought in mid morning and comfort breaks taken as necessary. Perhaps you should rota kitchen duties instead???

[Sue R]

Like that, Susan!

 

Nice to see you showing how teachers often get very little in the way of breaks - reminded me of what I observed as a parent helper all those years ago when my children were at school. I get very annoyed when I hear people talking about overpaid and underworked Teachers (which, I'm afraid is still my husband's opinion - despite years of me ranting at him. Hmm, maybe he's just winding me up ? ) They obviously have absolutely no idea of what goes on in schools or other such settings!

 

Sorry to wander off the point a bit,

 

Sue

[Marion]

Hello!!!  not logged on to this site for absolutely AGES-anyway, much stress of fs profiles,  usual end of year hecticness and a lovely 6 weeks holiday later I'm back and wanting to know how you're all getting on with your fs units. (as last post on this one was July think we've all been in a similar boat)

My main worry at the moment is the big O word (we're definitely due one soon) and I want to utilise our time to the best of our abilities (how do you allocate all those jobs when the ordinary day to day running of the place takes up all our time and energy?)  Also, are you integrating children for teaching sessions/family groups and if so does it work?How do you cover the curriculum?  (we keep nursery and reception separate for carpet sessions)  I must re-read Anne O'connors articles again....they didn't take breaks and thats a bit of an issue for us at the moment (one of our nursery nurses says she doesn't get paid to work through her morning break) anyway, just thought i'd try and kick start a debate again.  Looking forward to your replies (hopefully!)

Zim

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Hi

 

We officially became a FSU last week after working fr the past 10 years as an EYU so cant really give much advice as at the moment its a bit of try it and see if it works!

We are keeping nursery and reception children seperate for the first half hour of each session but allowing them to come together at story times. (2 seperate stories, 1 in each room and the children can choose which to join in with) We've also bought a huge tent and all the children are enjoying story time inside the tent ( seems a bit more adventurous)

The break situation hasnt become a real issue, what we doing is one member of staff is making drinks in spill proof cups for everyone to drink while remaining in the unit. Not ideal but a solution.

[Guest]

Thanks for all your replies. Mundina-when you did 'family groups' for snak/story were they the group you were responsible for-ie in terms of parents/being their nominated teacher? If so who planned year group sessions? Was it, for example, you had your own mixed group but planned for say a reception literacy session? Id like to hear more about how you organised the day if you have time and don't mind thanks, sounds good.

Is how I feel about breaks. At the moment we are all taking 10-15 minute break. like you say about breaks being hereditary teachers in key stage 1 have always taken them because of necessity for chns playtime and some of our support staff insist on getting one,I was missing out or just having a cold drink with chn but since I've renewed the timetable for this year I felt it wasn't fair to just timetable one in for those who whinged about getting one! (don't know how long I'll keep it up for-certainly have had no more than 10 minutes today and have used that time to talk to other teacher who is on job share and its necessary for me to relay the planning to her but thats another story!)

I'm quite worried about what to do actually. If I went anywhere else and was asked to worked straight through the morning that wouldn't be a problem but I feel that to stop breaks now would open a can of worms that for the sake of 10 minutes each would be better not opening!

Susan-when you said kitchen duties did you mean someone to brew up?

Marion-might sound dense but what exactly is the difference between an Early Years Unit and aFoundation stage unit? Good luck with it hope it goes well.ps-where do you get the non-spill cups?

thanks Zim

[Magenta]

We're in our second year too, in the Summer we were more like N+R - wanted to change that this term, but at the moment Nursery group are still settling in separately for most of the session. R group were so settled after 5 mins! that we didn't want to disrupt them.

I wanted to have family group snack times, but I'm finding the logistics a bit difficult - 6 groups to wash hands etc. and acutally getting the children to their groups without wasting too much time! We're going to give it a go so will let you know how it goes.

At the moment N+R have separate class inputs, apart from 2 bright sparks in N who will join R for maths/JP short bursts. CI play is mixed.

We are hoping to share the planning this year - 2 tchrs planning for lit/num/circle times, 4 support staff planning Phys/Creative/KU - with my support. All have expressed interest in 1 of the areas so not doing anything they don't want to.

We don't have breaks, someone will put kettle on and make drinks for anyone who wants one - no one has complained. One downfall of not having assembly/break etc. with rest of school is that there doesn't seem to be time to get jobs done!

[Guest]

That's so true Magenta!

[Guest]

Hi Zim

We're into our 2nd week of working as a unit. So far it seems to be running ok. Our first batch of new Nursery children starts on Wed and that's when things will get hairy I think.

 

Being very honest here now, one of the things that I've realised is that I'm quite jealous of what the 'Reception' children are able to achieve during a whole day now and without me. It wasn't quite so evident before we became a unit and I kind of miss being part of their success, a bit like missing your child's first words or steps I suppose.

 

Also, (and my teaching colleague and I have already discussed this,) I think we have to be prepared to lose a measure of autonomy over our timetable and flow of activities. I hope that as time goes on we'll be able to slot in with each other's flow inituitively (and it'll help once we get the doorway sorted out and can let the children move between areas as they wish. At the moment we have to chaperone them between rooms past the toilets (sooo inviting!) and back again at the end of each working together session) and that I won't feel bad if we're not ready for the other children to join us just yet.

 

The most difficulty so far is with the planning. Trying to amalgamate 2 sets of plans to cover such a range of abilities is proving a bit of a headache. Although, having said that, I spent most of the afternoon giggling with my colleague during our PPA time trying to get something done.

 

Oh yes, Ofsted. They're due here any minute so we're trying to get ourselves organised. We've produced 3 documents to cover the timetable, focused activities, group activities, areas activities. ok so that's 4. It's taken us ages to fine tune them. Have consulted with our EY adviser and link inspector also and they thought they were ok but said that we should be careful with terminology. I had put 'choosing time' on the timetable and 'child initiated learning' was deemed better. (hmmm). Also - do you say 'free flow' or 'working together' or what?

 

As to your other points: NNs are paid by the hour, they don't have to have breaks, not even 1 hour for lunch. But obviously we try to keep them sweet cos they do a great job. Our Rec class gave up playtimes last term because they got in the way of learning and it was a pain tidying up when everyone was really involved in what they were doing. Aso we've opted out of school assemblies, although we do attend the KS1/F assembly once a week.

 

our N and Rec groups have separate introductions to activities/small group sessions. They need it really don't they? It's hard enough differentiating for 1 single year group, let alone what is effectively 3. And anyway, I want to do different things in my area to the Rec teacher in her area, and that's what progression means.

 

I'm waiting for the first pair of wet pants because then we'll have to close an area to release an adult to sort the child out. We were promised an extra NN for Jan when we'll have new Rec children starting, but now it looks as though there's no money. Hmmmm

Sorry this is so long, hope not too incoherent and rambly, I've very good at rambling recently.

Love J

[Marion]

Marion-might sound dense but what exactly is the difference between an Early Years Unit and aFoundation stage unit? Good luck with it hope it goes well.ps-where do you get the non-spill cups?

thanks Zim

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Priority.............. Non spill cups from Lakeland plastics think they called non breakable sipper cups ....

WWW.LAKELANDLIMITED.com

 

Have seen similar in tesco!

 

As an Early Years Unit we worked seperately most of the time with the Nursery teacher and Nursery Nurse planning for the younger children and me (Reception teacher) and my NN planning for the older children. As a Foundation Stage Unit we are working together most of the time and planning jointly. Children are working by ability rather than age.

[Guest]

Thanks Marion-I get it now!

Jmoore hope it all goes well for you-toilet situation sounds like a bit of a nightmare. When we get more time/settled we'll have to share whats working really well/what isn't. Haven't had any PPA time yet this week but starting next week so much to do!!

[Guest]

Hiya

 

Just getting back into the swing of things! We keep carpet times separate in our unit as the group would be too big and also we can work at a suitable level for each class.

 

I have a similar problem over breaks, my nursery nurse prefers to have her break when the nursery children leave at 11:30, the staff with rec rotate to give each other a break but then the rec children stay in till 12. I personally don't mind waiting till the children have gone home from nursery but 2 other TA's working with the nursery children take their breaks when they can. Is it unfair to expect them to wait till the children have gone, it is only 2.5 hours, but then is not better to have a happy work force?

 

Has anyone got any settling solutions for a little girl, who speaks little english (we have a bilingual member of staff but that hasn't helped) and has on and off crying - no pattern to what sets her off or calms her down - refuses to leave an adult and if not getting anywhere with them either follows them around or finds another adult to cry to. I feel like I've tried everything, puppets, stickers, distraction with toys, even the head came in to give it a go. I'm stumped!!

 

 

Kavmar

Edited September 30, 2005 by Guest

[Guest AMP]

In my school we are setting up a FS unit to begin in September, although after half term we will be experimenting as to what does/does not work - we have had a wall knocked out to make it one area.  I will be the sole teacher (now into the last term of my NQT year), but I will have 2 nursery nurses too - which seems ok to me.

I have been given a budget to resource our unit - although I was scared of spending it, incase I ordered all the wrong things!!!!!!

I am looking forward to it, but am still concerned about how I'm going to plan.

31765[/snapback]

[Guest AMP]

In my school we are setting up a FS unit to begin in September, although after half term we will be experimenting as to what does/does not work - we have had a wall knocked out to make it one area.  I will be the sole teacher (now into the last term of my NQT year), but I will have 2 nursery nurses too - which seems ok to me.

I have been given a budget to resource our unit - although I was scared of spending it, incase I ordered all the wrong things!!!!!!

I am looking forward to it, but am still concerned about how I'm going to plan.

31765[/snapback]

We have just moved into our new purpose "re-built" FSU It is a large open plan area with 30 reception and 26 nursery morning and afternoon. We have 2 teachers and 2 TA's. My main problems are: that we are trying to operate a "key workers" system with each adult responsible for a group. This is fine when everyone remembers that they have a group to take care of and doesn't disappear off doing somrthing else. It is also hard when one teacher is tidy and organised (me) and the other is hopelessly scatty and puts things everywhere!.

I am also concerned that we are not going to do our best for the reception children when we have new 3 yr olds running around free.

I am slowly going nuts! Especially when my head tells me that we are under scrutiny because a lot of money has been spent and the authority wants to see results. Excuse me but when was money attached to good results?

 

Sorry to moan but life feels hard at the moment (or maybe I'm just getting too old for this game- retiring in a couple in years!!!)

 

Anne _Marie

Edited February 6, 2006 by AMP

[Marion]

Good luck with the Unit Have to say I am jealous of your purpose built setting. We became a Foundation Stage Unit in September utilising the interconnecting nursery and reception rooms. We have 27 reception and 23 / 26 nursery children (depending on the day as some dont attend a full week) there are 2 teachers and 2 NNEBs we dont opperate on a key worker system so I would be interested on your oppinion of how this works for you once you are settled into the unit.

[surfer]

Hi,

Just wanted to say that we started our unit in september 2004. We operate a keyworker system with 4 groups of children up to 14 in a group. We have 2 teachers and 2 nneb's. It has been very hard work and we are still tweaking and reviewing and evaluating things. You have to have a team who are all on board and committed or it won't work. If you want to contact me direct for any queries or to talk in more detail feel free to email me and arrange to speak,

 

Don't give up it's worth all the hard work!!!

 

Sue