Guest Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 I need some advise.....In my FS unit there are 3 children whose behaviour is inappropriate! 1 is a new nursery child and the other 2 are reception children. They are not friends with each other and so do not work as a gang. All 3 are violent children that do not think about their actions. They throw stones, hit, push, trip other children, nothing unusal but still a problem. As a team we constantly talk to them about their behaviour, talk to their parents and talk to each other. However their behaviour continues the same. They will usually have 2 or more time outs a day. I am very concerned about their behaviour. But I now have other parents complaining about their own children being bullied. These children are not bullying becasue they are not choosing one victim but just push anyone in their path. I now need HELP! What do you suggest I should do? What have you done in similar situations? We have a behaviuor policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Hi Oli - what a difficult situation! As this seems to be a fairly long term thing, have you any obs that might suggest any patterns or triggers? If not, you might try that approach, in case there's something obvious. I would ask for your Senco to take a look as well. Does your Behaviour policy have procedures in place for persistent inappropriate behaviour? It may be that, as a whole, your setting needs to review this policy if it does not. Other than that, don't really know what to suggest. I expect someone out there will have more useful contributions to make! But do let us know how you get on and good luck. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posy Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Hi Oli, I sympathise with you as we have had a similiar scenario in our nursery over the last two terms. I started by suggesting that both sets of parents got in touch with their health visitors to check out hearing, I thought this was a fairly non confrontential way to get the parents 'on side'. Through talking to the h/v one mum saw a CAMHS worker and this was brilliant because it was another professional giving her the same messages that we were giving about routines, type of television watched and the sort of aggressive play that the children seemed to enjoy, (okay if I'm honest the only sort of play they engage in).We did an Anne Lock sheet on both children which showed areas where they had significant weaknesses, strangely enough in the social development column! We are also introduced home/school books and tried really hard to put a positive comment in, somehow.The other children are really good at signifying their disapproval, we have a thumbs up for the right behaviour and thumbs down for the wrong behaviour and the children sit at group or circle time like a lot of little ancient Romans signing the death warrant. But it has taken ages for me to view this behaviour with anything like humour because it's so exhausting and just seems to go on and on. Is this any help or not? Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 That's really interesting Barb - I particularly liked the image conjured by your thumbs up/thumbs down scenario!! Wish I'd thought of that when we had a situation like this a couple of years ago . You're right, it is really exhausting, but hopefully things will improve - Oli, take heart from the fact that we're thinking of you! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Just to show my ignorance - what's an 'Ann Lock' sheet? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posy Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Hi Maz, An Ann Lock sheet is a spread sheet with different columns for different areas of development, language, physical, social skills etc. It has different criteria for different ages (development 'norms') and you colour the boxes in if child is able to achieve outcome. You assess the child over a period of time using different colours. It gives you an overview of areas of strength and weakness. They are available through NFER Nelson and must not be photocopied or you're in trouble. I got mine through our partnership advisory service,. Does this make sense, as it's quite late?! Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Thanks Barb, that makes perfect sense! It sounds very like something we used to use in my last group, but I never knew it was an Ann Lock sheet. You learn something new everyday! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magenta Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 We have similar problems in our Unit Oli, which seemed to be escalating at the end of last term! I don't know whether there are similar problems in large FS Units, we have around 85 chn. at any one time with 7 adults. I feel that part of the problem for us is that each adult has different expectations, differing abilities with regard to class control etc. We have tried to set standards etc., but its not really working at the moment. Does anyone else have similar problems, or any solutions? Sorry I haven't been any help Oli! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Thanks for the replies, that's all really useful. I haven't made obs of them. How long should I spend ods them and how frequently? Our Behaoviour policy is very basic and is being developed at the moment. I'm going to look into getting an Ann lock form, sound useful. Thanks again, Oli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posy Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Oli, Have you got a book called Practical Pre School Special Educational Needs in Practice? It has two really good chapters about behaviour and behaviour management, I say good, cos I find them re-assuring that a) I'm not a bad tempered old bag with unreasonable expectations of the children and others must be having the same problem cos they've devoted a chapter to it! The ISBN is 1-90243878-7. I don't know how much it costs as it was a free book from our EY partnership people. Keep in touch on this, Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Hi Oli I can only sympathise. I could of penned your post personally. We have the exact same scenarios happening in our pre-school. The same numbered group of children behaving inappropriately constantly. As you say, its not a bullying issue as the group dont mind who they are pushing or hurting and often it is each other. We have spoken on various occasions to the parent/carers and have found that doing incident obs on the children takes one staff member all session! The last thing we attempted was speaking to our special needs advisor, who has said that she will come in and observe the group and give us the benefit of her advice. But when that will happen I dont know! Good luck and I will watch with interest as to how you cope with your little hiccup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fay Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I also recommend close observation because that may give you clues for how to avoid it or deal with it. A hearing test is a good idea not just to get the parents on board but because problems with communication can be a cause of behavioural problems. I have seen children with glue ear change dramatically once they had grommets. Sue Roffey and Terry O'Reirdan have written a good book to help with a variety of behaviour problems, plans for better behaviour in the primary school. both published by david Fulton this has a series of tables with behaviour, assessment, short term management and long term intervention ideas. ideas I have used to help children develop self discipline (they are probably obvious) -making child responsible for their behaviour, "if you choose to throw stones you are choosing to 'have time out'" -specific and positive feedback when they behave well "well done you waited for a turn that was brilliant" possibly small rewards for good behaviour, special handshake, smiley/washable stamp on hand (these should be easy to do for all children) -reading relevant stories and/or using puppets to discuss behaviour with a group/class. -finding ways to build the child's self esteem. I have only worked in schools so I don't know how well these work with littlies lastly this does not sound very positive but I think it is helpful to remember that it may take several weeks before you see a change in behaviour. School or nursery may be the only place where discipline is consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I agree that it takes time for the behaviour to change and for our attempts to have a positive outcome. I seem to remember years ago being told that to give it 6 weeks before involving parents, and this seems to of worked in the cases I can remember over the years. No good telling until routines are recognised and learnt. I do think though that some children will never be able to follow the rules, we try our best but when some of them only come to us for 2 sessons a week it's difficult to establish continuity. That goes for all things such as the children who use the toilet while with us but mom says they only use a potty at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Hi Oli Just to let you know that we have been giving the thumbs up suggestion a go as offered by Barb. It seems to have worked on one out of the three children. So that's a start. It obviously depends on the individual child. But you never know, you could be lucky with this option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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