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Hi,

 

After having an APP Writing moderation staff meeting it was suggested that those children in Reception that are achieving within level 1 on the writing APP grid should be moved onto this by me when they are ready- most likely in the summer term. What do you lovely people think? It came about as I took a piece of independent writing by a girl achieving scale point 8 and all preceeding scale points, with several pieces of evidence, it was better than the lower level 1 from Year 1.

 

Thanks

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Hi,

 

After having an APP Writing moderation staff meeting it was suggested that those children in Reception that are achieving within level 1 on the writing APP grid should be moved onto this by me when they are ready- most likely in the summer term. What do you lovely people think? It came about as I took a piece of independent writing by a girl achieving scale point 8 and all preceeding scale points, with several pieces of evidence, it was better than the lower level 1 from Year 1.

 

Thanks

 

I hope APP never becomes statutory

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Why not Marion - I don't bother with it myself, in Reception but would be interested to hear your views

 

Jenni

 

I know lots of teachers in schools that have fully embraced APP who are making themselves (are being made ) ill under the workload of APP

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Guest tinkerbell

I think the Reception children could score quite highly on the APP but have said we must not do it in Reception ,it is against all our principles.We already have the e-profile so how much work do you think this would generate for us? We have always said in the Early years that the EYFS curriculum should not equate to the national curriculum and headteachers/managers should not be asking for this kind of assessment.

 

My school does APP for all children starting at year1 it is an enormous amount of work for the teachers

 

Tinkerbell

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My school does APP for all children starting at year1 it is an enormous amount of work for the teachers

 

Same here. It must not be brought into reception other wise EYFS loses all worth.

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I think APP is ridiculous - assess one child and apparently all the rest in that 'group' get the same level. Never mind that all children are individuals and we in EYFS work so hard to assess each child and target their learning etc to their individual needs.

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Can I ask if/how you assess those higher achieving children in reception- i.e if they have achieved 9 points. I have been asked (in theory and not agreed to it yet!!) to give specific NC levels for them. Just wondering if you do this (or just call them scale point 9) or if you actually do some APP type assessments.

 

I don't agree with APP by the way! Just interested if what you do!

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My Literacy Co Ordinator wants us to start ticking off and saving pieces of evidence ready for Year 1 Teachers to carry on APP for those children who are working within level 1. I have not done it, need to think about it first and carefully consider. They think it will help the Year 1 teachers understand more, although I have alraedy given them APP grids with some FSP links highlighted on it but said this does not mean they have achieved the whole level, just elements of. For reading we use the Book Bands so I use the school reading tracking grids relating to Level 1c 1b etc as the children are reading at that level Why is it we still feel so torn between EYFS and KS1?

Edited by Guest
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I dont think you should be doing that, your assessment in EY is the profile. If the children are secure and working at point 9 then anything they do now is eveidence for that and it will be evident in work they do in year1 that they are achieving on App?

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I think I must be the only person who actually likes using APP for writing. Maybe I'm not using it properly, but I consider the work done in literacy and challlenge time as evidence since they don't do any writing in the foundation subjects (I don't teach those). Every half term I get out my APP sheet for each child and highlight off what I think they've achieved and give them a level from that. On the other hand I haven't done any training for the use of APP so perhaps I'm not doing something huge that I should be doing because for me it's a couple of hours work per half term which I don't consider a great workload.

 

I do a similar thing with the maths, although I'm using that by choice since my school doesn't use maths APP yet. We don't use reading APP either, and that one, I have to admit, looks incredibly scary. I haven't attempted to use it yet so perhaps that's the one that requires lots of work.

 

Having said all this I definitely wouldn't use, nor expect anyone else to use, APP on reception children whether they're working in level 1 or not. It's not designed for them, the profile is the only measure of their achievment that is needed and the year one teacher can quite easily set up APP sheets for them in September.

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I'm in reception so haven't used APP but to me APP seems like a logically assessment tool to have in KS1 which follows on from the profile in FS. I do think it seems very strange to just do 3 children, my year 1 teacher does it for all children and uses the APP sheets in the same way that I use the profile so it seems no more work than what I am doing. However, in KS2 where the marking increases I can see that this would be ridiculous.

 

Following on from previous posts - I also wonder what people use for assessment once children have met scale point 9? I have a very bright reception child who has scored level 9 in all the CLL sections of the profile, she isn't far off in the other areas of learning. I feel like I need to start planning from the national curriculum to extend her??? I haven't done this yet as have been told I shouldn't but what should I use to show her further progress? I have a whole term left til she can start APP, just seems like I'm holding her back??

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I use APP for 2 children in my class who are already at scale point 9 for both literacy and Maths --- If I didn't how would I know what their next steps are? How would we prove we have movd the children on? If children are ready then surely this is the way forward for them? It helps year one collegues immensely.

I find it takes less time to do than the profile does and just keep their app stuff in the same files as profile.

If Ofsted were to come in they would expect to see progress for all children - we don't stop teaching children just because they have reached point 9 in the profile.

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That makes sense to me! I have started to look at the year 1 objectives to see where to take the children next so it makes sense to assess them against NC levels. Just an advisor said I shouldn't - argh!!

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Presumably the children can work towards NC objectives, and be assessed against those levels, but that information would then be passed on to their Y1 teacher/used internally - the official reported score to LA would be 9s on EYFSP. Could be wrong though.

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I think that if children are working well within point 9 then the next steps are fromt he national curriculoum, in the same way as those who haven't achieved ELGs continue using the EYFS. Surely it is common sense to work from the document that is most appropriate to your children. I have a R/Y1 class and there are still 2 of the Year 1 children who are working completely from EYFS and others in aspects. I also have one R child who is working with the more capable Year 1s at times, but I would not say that he is a secure point 9 yet across all CLL or PSRN so I will continue using the eye profile to record assessments.

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I thought the same Susan. We continue with ELG's for those that need them up until Christmas in the Year 1 and by then most are working within Level 1c or beyond and if not then we use P scales. That is the advice from our LA.

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I understood that if the profile had not been completed by this stage in yr 1 then p scales were the appropriate assessment?

 

 

The advice I recieved recently from someone who is an EYFS advisor above the level of a county one (don't know her official title!) was that the profile should be used until Christmas in year one if necessary then you reassess. If you feel children are 'nearly there' and will make it to a 1C by Easter then you can continue with the profile. If not you use p-scales.

 

For those children who continued on the profile you look again at Easter and if they have made it to 1C - great, if not then you switch them to p-scales even if they are 'nearly there'. Personally I continue filling in the profile as well just to see where they are in relation to it, but my main method of assessment after Easter is the p-scales for these children. You shouldn't be using the profile 'officially' after easter for any year one child.

 

 

 

This same lady also said that no reception child is ready for NC goals unless their total profile score is greater than 78 and they have achieved at least a 6 in all the PSE and CLL scales. So if the child hasn't achieved this then it doesn't matter that they have 9s for CLL, you should continue to allow them to have opportunities for writing but you should concentrate on the other scale points without pushing them onto NC goals as they lack the social and emotional maturity to cope. On the other hand if they have reached these goals then perhaps looking at NC targets would be appropriate but only in guided sessions and only if the child isn't being frustrated by expecting them to overreach themselves.

 

Personally I'd concentrate more on the child's creativity in writing and ability to write more extended pieces, plus their knowledge of what a sentence actually is before moving them onto things covered in the APP. (It's amazing how many bright year one children don't grasp the idea of sentences and this stops them from being able to break their writng up and use full stops properly - it's no good knowing you put one on the end of a sentence if when writing a story you have no idea where the sentences should end). Another handy piece of knowledge is knowing how to form capital letters, I had to teach my year one children this one from scratch and they still can't use capital letters consistently because of it.

Edited by Guest
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I understood that if the profile had not been completed by this stage in yr 1 then p scales were the appropriate assessment?

 

 

P scales should only be used for SEN children regardless of whether or not they have completed the profile.

 

 

Who Should Be Assessed Using the P Scales?

P scales should only be used for pupils between 5 and 16 who are working below

National Curriculum level 1 and have also been identified as having special educational

needs. They are not appropriate for use with children who do not have a SEN even if

they are working below National Curriculum level 1, for example some children with

English as an additional language.

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/11930/07...ools%5B1%5D.pdf

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I use APP for 2 children in my class who are already at scale point 9 for both literacy and Maths --- If I didn't how would I know what their next steps are? How would we prove we have movd the children on? If children are ready then surely this is the way forward for them? It helps year one collegues immensely.

I find it takes less time to do than the profile does and just keep their app stuff in the same files as profile.

If Ofsted were to come in they would expect to see progress for all children - we don't stop teaching children just because they have reached point 9 in the profile.

 

 

We don't use APP as a school but last year I used the Criterion Scale (which is similar) to assess some of my very able children against NC levels. One was externally assessed as a 2c for writing at the end of reception so was significantly beyond the profile.

 

http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/153446

 

The point at which teachers begin to use APP criteria is a matter for professional judgement and the teacher's knowledge of the child. Teachers will need to consider carefully which criteria best match the child's developing strengths and needs, and support them in identifying the next steps in their learning.

 

Teachers will also need to use their judgement to determine whether a child has not achieved the ELG as a result of a special educational need. Children with identified special educational needs who are likely to be working below level 1 at the end of the key stage should be assessed in relation to the P scales.

Edited by Marion
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Guest tinkerbell

I came to an agreement with my Ht that I would sit down withthe year1/2 teacher (I teach R/yr1) in October once her year1 had settled and help her fill in the APP and set targets for the children based on our joint knowledge of the children .We use the ROYGBIV colour coding (Richard of york gave battle in vain) highlighter pens so orange is yr1 yellow yr2 etc.

 

We do APP for all children and they are not grouped they are done as individuals,having said that we are a small school 107 children.The KS2 classess have 28 and 29 children though and the APP is an enormous amount of work for the teachers.Unfortunately my HT and her SIP decided it would be her performance management last year (I think they thought it was statutory!!) how annoying is that!!

 

Tinkerbell

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The advice I recieved recently from someone who is an EYFS advisor above the level of a county one (don't know her official title!) was that the profile should be used until Christmas in year one if necessary then you reassess. If you feel children are 'nearly there' and will make it to a 1C by Easter then you can continue with the profile. If not you use p-scales.

 

For those children who continued on the profile you look again at Easter and if they have made it to 1C - great, if not then you switch them to p-scales even if they are 'nearly there'. Personally I continue filling in the profile as well just to see where they are in relation to it, but my main method of assessment after Easter is the p-scales for these children. You shouldn't be using the profile 'officially' after easter for any year one child.

 

 

 

My school is part of the national AfA (achievemnet for all) project and we have had to submit data for the Year 1 children (SEN) . They wanted profile data for the autumn term but then P or NC levels for the spring term, which made sense to me as if they are not level 1c by spring term it is quite likely they will have a degree of SEN.

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