Guest Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 We have used THE BRUSH BUS for a couple of years now. We were asked to do so by the dentist as its another way of the children getting flouride (non in our water). We have 3 different coloured buses for Nursery/reception and each child has their own brush with an animal sticker on and a corresponding place to put their brush on the bus! We started off doing it in the slot just before dinner as this was the only time we could fit it in (they are all using bathroom anyway) but then the dinner ladies heard about us doing this, thought we were daft! and offered to do it when they brought them back from lunch (although it was an issue of gettting flouride directly on their teeth rather than brushing them this made a lot more sense) However, as we have had staff problems and complaints at dinner time they have stopped doing it as it was taking too long and the children were hardly getting any outoor play (which I agreed with-it never used to take us so long but then thats a different issue-I had showed them how to organise it but we have different dinnerladies each week which is a bit of a pain) The Nursery have now gone back to doing it in the slot just before dinner but we have changed our systems in Reception and I just don't think we can afford the time to do it anymore. Just wondered what other people think. Is it really our job to be brushing children's teeth when we've got so many other responsibilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hi Zim Are you serious? No, I don't think it should be a job for teachers (even if there was time in the day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 An interesting point. I think we need to promote health issues in the nursery and cleaning teeth is very important. I think that it should form part of the daily duties although I realise that it is very time consuming and judging by some of the nurseries I have worked in does not seem to appear very high on the list. Promoting childrens health is so much more than the little things - it may be one of the only times that a child cleans his/her teeth regularly and I think this has to be a good thing, especially when so many children have poor diets. Apparently, a group of students on my course visited some european settings and saw firsthand children chewing a flouride chewing gum immediately after mealtimes and this worked really well. Obviously not suitable for the younger children but may be something we should be look into over here - where we have one of the highest rates of decay/cavities. However having seen how and where toothbrushes are stored in a anumber of settings I think i would prefer them not to clean them at all for risk of x infection. Well managed - I think cleaning teeth is vital but I do realise how difficult it can be - maybe the Europeans have it right. I think you should keep at it and review how you do it to see if there is an easier way. Sorry I haven't given any constructive help but wanted to offer support in what I think is a really valuable service. Unfortuantely when things are stretched it is always these areas - which i think are as important - which get dropped. Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 A little while ago (probably two weeks ago, actually!) I would have said it's not part of our job - teacher or NN. Than a colleague (19 and working towards Level 3) remarked that she had 3 more holes in her teeth. When I asked if she'd booked in at the Dentist, she said she couldn't get one, as she'd never been registered and only started brushing her teeth 3 years ago when she started going out with her current boyfriend!! (Dentists are a problem in our area, but that's another story!) What do you say to that!! Apart from urkhh!! If no-one else will teach them, them we must!! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 We only have our children for 2 1/2 hrs so no major meals are included and brushing after toast would take more time than the toast but I'm definitly going to include loads more about teeth now. Sue, thats horrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 We encourage parents to put a toothbrush and paste in their childrens lunchbox, we don't clean teeth "en mass" but support the children who have a brush as we would with handwashing or any other "Hygiene" practice. When I first encouraged this about a year ago, 50% of children bought brushes in, now it is only 3 out of 25....Thanks for the post...I shall send out another reminder. I did find that the children who had brushes were quite independant in remembering to use them after lunch ( sorry couldn't resist a big smiley face) and they would ask for help if they needed it. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Not sure what to think now!! part of me thinks like you mousebat-its not my job but then I hear all these horrible stories and think like sue r-if no one else will... I do worry though that parents might become complacent and think-well if they're getting it at school we won't worry so much at home....?????????????????????????????????????? Want to make a decision before next week (on half term this week) as we've got out of a routine since dinnerladies stopped doing it. Buses are stored on high shelf in bathroom-dentist said this was fine (as thats where we use them-more convienient) but as in same vicinity as toilets at bet some of you would be horrified at this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Hey Zim This is one topic that makes my blood boil!! I'm going to have a rant now which is not directed at anyone here We certainly live in a Nanny State! Some Parents have children and then immediately give up responsibility for them! How hard is it for parents/ carers to make sure the children clean their teeth at home twice a day for two minutes? It has nothing to do with going to the dentist or finding an NHS denstist. It's the 'can't be bothered someone else will take care of it' attitude! Then come all the excuses! I'm a working parent and I make sure my kids clean their teeth etc etc. We don't go to the dentist and we all have good teeth. I also don't give them rubbish that could rot their teeth. It ain't that difficult a job !!! I certainly don't expect or would want their teachers to supervise their teeth cleaning. Just my opinion on the subject. Ahhh..I feel better for getting that off my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I raed somewhere that you should keep your toothbrush at least 6 feet away from the toilet. In my house that'd be on the landing then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 This is because it is claimed that the spray from the toilet after flushing can settle on the toothbrush. In our house I have trained everyone to close the lid before flushing. It drives me mad when visitors leave the lid up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I tried that close the lid before brushing thing (after watching-how clean is your house? but it doesn't work as partner thinks its a load of crap (excuse the pun! ) Wouln't be an option in school as no lids. You really have got me thinking mousebat-come on everybody please continue this debate-there must be others out there who think like mousebat. I know our year 1 teacher does-she thinks it ludicrous and says 'they better not ask me' but i think all these initiates are directed just at Foundation stage (best when they're young but why in N/R and not the rest of the school?) I know the principal reason is that young teeth need flouride but surely its just as important for a 10 year old as a 4? (or even more important coz they have lost many baby teeth and its even more vital that their adult ones don't get holes in ) and I might be paranoid but sometimes I think that they throw all these thing at FS stage beause they know we are more flexible therefore, a soft touch!. Fair enough we can call it PSE but it doesn't stop the fact that we still have a million other things we want to teach the children (you could be the best teacher at promoting/educating in health ed but not brush childrens teeth and vice versa). Its so true about living in a nanny state. A nursery teacher at another school told me once that she had problems with a child and approached his parent about his behaviour who replied 'I've had to put up with him for the first 3 years of his life now its your turn.' I'm not kidding This definitely makes my blood boil. I still haven't made my mind up what to do so please keep replying I want to hear more opinions. I've got the feeling that most people will agree that the world's gone mad but that we've got to work with it. The brush bus is a response to the world we live in would not doing it change parents attitudes? I personally don't think so. Maybe something else has to be done on a larger scale but in the meanwhile do we, as teachers, still have a responsibility to children's health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I dont think teachers should have to deal with health issues, or discipline issues. They are teachers, there to teach. I would expect to be told by my childrens teachers of any bad behaviour and then I can dish out suitable punishment, same with health issues. I am the parent, I know my children best and as such I want to be the one to teach this aspect of their learning. When my oldest son was in yr 6 he was shown the video of a birth. I was so angry that the school had taken this out of my hands. Yes you can argue that we are in a position to promote healthy living, but promote is the key word here. Schools dont promote any particular faith, or any particular way of life so why should they go further on teeth brushing. If you take desisions like this away from parents then you do create a nanny state where no body can think for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Out of interest - how many of you brush your teeth after every meal? I certainly don't - am I just a mucky pup though??? Should I be admitting that? (Stand back everyone - here come's old dragon breath! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Rea, Do you really think that schools shouldn't have to deal with dicipline issues? Its quite sad but school is a refuge for many of our children. A place where they know they will be treated fairly and can expect others to do the same for them because of our rules and the way we dicipline. You can't have rules without rewards and sanctions can you? Yes, we should tell parents so that they are informed and can deal accordingly with a child if they have broken one of the rules but if one of our children pushes another child off a bike for example we have to dicipline them-by making them apologise and sending them inside. It has to be immediate. Or did you not mean this kind of dicipline ? Did this start with teeth? Beau-I don't brush after every meal but try to chew sugar free gum after lunch. (haven't done that today though-I lied! stinky!) Our school dentist said its not about the cleaning its the flouride. we don't have it in our water but do in our milk (optional) but its about the direct contact of flouride on the teeth (she said we could do it at any time of the day and as it fitted in best b4 lunch we didi it then but I still thought it was sending the wrong kind of messages out to our children) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Oh, dear!! What a puzzle! As a NN in a DN, I've encountered all sorts of approaches 'it's policy here to encourage toothbrushing so send in a brush and some paste' - some do, some don't!! 'we're not big brother!' 'Please help me encourage good hygiene practices in my child, here's a brush and paste' 'why has my child got bad teeth? We pay good money to you!' I have no hard and fast answers, keep the opinions/ideas coming!! Sue (who sees a dentist every 6 months, brushes 3 times a day, flosses, but still has lots of fillings ! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Probably not explained it right Zim, yes we have to discipline and I agree that boundaries can have a huge positive effect on some children but, too many times we hear of behaviour in schools being down to teachers and I dont think that should be the case. Parents should be more accountable for their children, and side with teachers instead of with the kids, nobody has to take any responsibility any more. Respect for everything has vanished. I've heard children saying things to adults at age 3 that would hope my children wouldnt say at any age, and then their parent has laughed or condoned it. Why should teachers be the people to deal with this? If I have a water leek I go to a plumber, a toothache and I go to a dentist. Why are teachers seen as the answer to all societies problems. If the government want to promote healthy living and social responsibilty then let them employ people to go into schools to do it, and not rely on teachers who are there to teach subjects. I dont expect the person who is teaching my children business, or science to have to know about brushing teeth, and quite frankly I wish they wouldnt have such a say. My son, when he was in yr 6 was shown a video of a birth. None of the parents were asked for permission, and I was really angry that the decision of when to tell him such things had been taken out of my hands. The head, when I complained said that the children need to know these things, er..yes but are you the one to do it?? Told you I was mrs confrontational!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Teachers should deal with health issues and behavourial issues ( although I don't see the relevance to this argument.) We are there to teach them about such things. I cover health issues with the Ourselves topic and invite various health professionals in to do some exciting health activities with the children. It's all about teaching and promoting good habits such as teeth cleaning which they then can them do at home. I've was told many years ago (when I last went to a dentist) that too much brushing can erode the enamel off the teeth and make them more prone to decay! Also not to brush after drinking orange juice or any other acidic drink because you'll wear away the enamel. In the summer I'm sure we'll have a similar argument over applying suncream to pupils .... mind you I think that was discussed last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Rea - you should have been asked for permission as you have the right to remove your child from a sex education class. I'm not surprised you were argry I would have been too. I bet you gave the head a piece of your mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Just a piece, I had to share it out between him, the class teacher and the chair of governors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 It's conjuring up quite a picture!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Having read all these I still firmly believe that the care and education of children within our care should encompass "health education" and this should be given a serious priority. The National Standards certainly state this. The Government is clearly giving "health promotion" very serious consideration - by the introduction of the 5 a day, which I have to say should be extended to pre schoolers, but currently is not (money money money). Reviews/considerations are also under way for establishing how they can inspect and grade the nutritional intake of children whilst in the care of nurseries/schools. I also believe that much of this work is the responsiblity of the parent but that would be a naive assumption bearing in mind the social and environmental issues that many parents face. If we cannot support them and promote good practice within our setting whether that be in a school or preschool setting - what examples are we giving our parents/children. I believe that working in partnership with our parents is more than just advising them of their child's progress, it is about providing them with help to overcome many of the issues they face daily. Whether teeth cleaning is part of this is very much down to the individual setting, but I have often heard parents say they are so pleased with the endorsement of the good practices we promote within the nursery as it has certainly helped them at home. Some of these children will be spending between 8 and 10 hours at nursery a day (with a weekly cost of £175 in my area) Whether this is regarded as acceptable/suitable is another issue but if parents have chosen to do this for whatever reason then nurseries must accept responsibility for ensuring the care and education is of the highest quality. I know I have slightly gone off at a tangent here but it all revolves around issues of good practice. To clean or not to clean - I don't know - I certainly think you should try to continue but accept the limitations/staffing issues you are working under may prove difficult. I'm off my soap box now and off to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Just following on from this - I do agree that more support should be made available whether that be financial or from external sources - where has the old school nurse gone - where has the visiting school dentist gone - you are right that we are expected to do so much more now and cover areas we never had to before. My worry is that if we don't cover this - who will? Nikki Really off to bed now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 just found this topic and I have to reply to mousebat.I teach in a nursery which is part of a first school .I have been there 20 years and I love it,but chn are now comming into school with dummies and nappies on.I ask ,on home visits if their chn are toilet trained and most say yes But this year I have 6chn [out of 26-2 staff ]who arent .I feel I cant refuse them because they would have nowhere else to go So I spend 1/2 my time changing chn,as does my nn .since January we have toilet trained 3 of them .Im sure if mum had put in the effort at home it would have worked .Performance management observations loom in a few weks and I wonder if toilet training is a valid target just joking .Glad I got that of my chest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 only just read this! That's crazy crestacat! A parent once told me that she thought school shoud teach children to tie their laces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 ARGH!!!!! My blood boils too and I second everything that mousebat has said. teeth cleaning today what will be next? cutting finger and toe nails?? I think there is a difference between advising and supporting parents and doing their job for them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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