Guest Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 wondering if anyone can offer any advice- have jsut been visited by my LA advisor who has told me that chn should be expected to make 2 points progress a term. she also said they should be scroing 3 now on the profile. Having checked Eprofile my chn last yr made 3-4 over the yr- my head is now saying that OFSTED will be a problem because they haven't made good enough progress, however msot chn scored 1 or 2 in term1 and 6+ at end of yr- this felt like great progress at the time- feeling rubbish now can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Ive heard that bandied about too but personally fell thats from people who dont really understand the development aspects of the profile. Have you checked out NAA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 There are no xpectations for pointe per term etc. QCDA have removed the average scale points aspect of the new eprofile to hammer that home!! Ofsted will marry your on entry profile of cohorts with the EYFSP outcomes and judge progress from that not individual children's rate of attaining scale points. In any case they are all of equal weighting and not technically to be decided until the end of the FS2 year!! Don't know where your advisor has got it from - ask for the source materials!!! Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 The "2 points" advice comes from the expectations in KS1/2 of "2 sub levels" progress per term and some advisers are wrongly using profile scale points in this way. Others are converting profile points into P scales or APP. There seems to be a great deal of confusion and misinformation out there. Combine this with some reception teachers being told to "dumb down" results to make KS1 VA look good - 2 points progress per term from a starting point of 3 points = 9 or keep them below 6 so KS1 look good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 There are no xpectations for pointe per term etc.QCDA have removed the average scale points aspect of the new eprofile to hammer that home!! Ofsted will marry your on entry profile of cohorts with the EYFSP outcomes and judge progress from that not individual children's rate of attaining scale points. In any case they are all of equal weighting and not technically to be decided until the end of the FS2 year!! Don't know where your advisor has got it from - ask for the source materials!!! Cx Catma- can you expand on this a bit more- We have a maintained nursery so do you mean progresss from on entry data in nursery to end of EYFS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Yes I do. But also from entry to F2 to end of FS. Equally progress across the setting for vulnerable groups. But not how many points each term. From the Ofsted evaluation schedule of judgments:http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/Ofsted-home/Forms...-September-2009 Inspectors should take account of the following: enjoying and achieving: − how well children learn and develop in relation to their starting points and capabilities − the extent to which children enjoy their learning − the extent to which children are active learners, creative and think critically − whether progress in particular areas of learning and development is consistently better or worse than other areas − how well children are able to work independently − whether the progress of particular groups (or individuals) is consistently better than, or slower than, others Inspectors should take into account a range of information, including, where relevant, information provided by the school about how well pupils registered at the school but taught in other institutions and those from other institutions taught in the school make progress: learning across a range of subjects: − lesson observations, including scrutinising pupils’ work − discussions with pupils − the school’s evaluation of the quality of learning for all groups, including those with special educational needs and/or disabilities − external evaluation of the quality of learning, for example Ofsted’s survey visits or the local authority’s evaluation past progress: − data for up to three previous years − contextual value added data for the school overall (and the learning achievement tracker for post-16) and, where relevant, different key stages, key subjects and different groups of pupils, including those with special educational needs and/or disabilities, as indicated in RAISE online and the sixth form performance and assessment (PANDA) report − data presented by the school, including information provided by external bodies − any analysis of past progress carried out by the school including whether pupils reach challenging targets − Foundation Stage Profile scores current progress: − pupils’ records − any analysis of progress carried out by the school, including the progress made by different groups, particularly pupils with special educational needs and/or disabilities; looked after children; particular minority ethnic groups, including Gypsy, Roma and Travellers of Irish heritage; those who join the school other than at the normal date of admission; and those who are socially or economically disadvantaged. My bold/italics etc. All the source materials are on line for everyone to read! Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamgirl Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 We use target tracker in our school. Can you explain how local authories calculate the progress of children in FS when we only send them the FSP scores at the end of F2? Don't they only have one set of figures and therefore how can you calculate a before and after set? Am I very stupid and does everyone else understand this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 We use target tracker in our school. Can you explain how local authories calculate the progress of children in FS when we only send them the FSP scores at the end of F2? Don't they only have one set of figures and therefore how can you calculate a before and after set? Am I very stupid and does everyone else understand this? They don't calculate progress but expect schools to do so by looking at entry level data and end of EFYS data. The advisor who visited me suggested that teachers perfromance management target should be that chn make 2 profile points each term- I for 1 will not be including that as 1 of my targets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 They don't calculate progress but expect schools to do so by looking at entry level data and end of EFYS data. The advisor who visited me suggested that teachers perfromance management target should be that chn make 2 profile points each term- I for 1 will not be including that as 1 of my targets! Well done missc - stick to your guns! I cannot see how they can call 2 profile points progress as points 4 - 7 are non heirarchical! I really think you need to keep Catma's guidance to hand I have printed it off and will use it as a reference catma - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 LAs are only judged on attainment not progress based on their Early Years outcomes duty which is a combination of targets we are given/agree related to % of children attaining 6+ points in PSED scales/CLLD scales and combinations of this with 78+ points. Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm confused about entry level data as a baseline for progress. I know which children can write their name, count, recognise numbers etc but all as a result of adult directed activities and therefore this doesn't link with evidence I'm collecting through child-intitated for the profile. How do I acurately show where the chlildren are on entry and therefore their value added? I can show it term by term through the profile, but not acurately from entry. Not sure this makes sense! Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Have spoken to my advisor again- she advised that we collect evidence this term and fill the profile in at Oct 1/2 term- this will be classed as entry level data. THen from then to Feb 1/2 term chn should make 2 profile points and then 2 more from Feb to may 1/2 term. I am colelcting ideas about what my chn can do and then using that with some evidence to complete profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Still curious as to where she's got that from. I've never heard it said by anyone at QCDA or strategies. Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I am not sure about that either - in previous years, I have looked at progress between entry and end of autumn term, and between jan and easter (as well as to end of FSP obviously!) - some chn make really good progress in autumn term, for some it is spring term and for some it is summer term, often depending on age though not always. So I don't understand how someone can say that all chn should make 2 points progress each term ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I am not sure about that either - in previous years, I have looked at progress between entry and end of autumn term, and between jan and easter (as well as to end of FSP obviously!) - some chn make really good progress in autumn term, for some it is spring term and for some it is summer term, often depending on age though not always. So I don't understand how someone can say that all chn should make 2 points progress each term ?! I think it is based on the fact that if chn are achieving 3 points within the first term/entry level data then they should be finishing with 6+ so 2 points to FEb then 2 again to May would give them 7 in total. This would mean that a child where they should be at the start of the year will finish where they should be too. I can understadn the logic but I don't like it being prescribe to me in this way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Does it mean she's not expecting children to learn anything between starting school and mid Oct? On entry to us at our school means within the first few weeks only.... in fact we put our on entry scores onto the system last Friday 25th Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 My LA collect 'entry' data and it has to be sent to them just after half term. It has to be recorded as Autumn A - maybe because it takes some settings with longer, staggered intakes to gather the data?? But it would make more sense to me to gather it soon after the children start and record as 'entry'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 My LA collect 'entry' data and it has to be sent to them just after half term. It has to be recorded as Autumn A - maybe because it takes some settings with longer, staggered intakes to gather the data?? But it would make more sense to me to gather it soon after the children start and record as 'entry'. I'm not sure of the reason why entry level is half term- I think she mentioned something about ensuring that your judgements are secure and providing enough time to collect appropriate evidence etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hi Just recieved this from my head - hope it helpsHQCircular30Sept2009.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi Just recieved this from my head - hope it helpsHQCircular30Sept2009.doc WHOOPEE!!!!! Thanks Sammybuttons will print out and keep with me and I suggest we all do this as well as the info from Catma. Lets hope all HTs pass this on to their assessment co-ordinators! At Last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I've been told progress must be shown (obviously) and that 6 points per strand is average at the end of FS. However I know if I give a child more than an average 6 per CLL/PSRN strand, they enter our county progress tracking system with a predicted end of ks1 level 3 and end of ks2 level 5. So I am very cautious about giving them more than 6 now, as it messes with my colleagues and our school's perceived performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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