Guest Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm sorry to ask such an obvious question but does the letters and sounds document require us to teach the sound and the letter name at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Lola, that document is not statutory. It may suggest that you do that somewhere---have a look and see but I havent although I do know some schools of thought suggest that is good practise, others advocate teaching the names after the sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Hi Lola, I read your post with interest as it had some relevance to a recent moderation meeting I had. If you look at CLL - Linking Sounds and letters - Scale Point 4 - Links sounds to letters, naming and sounding letters of the alphabet this has always seemed to me to be a very advanced stage of development for such an early point in the profile. I have always concentrated just on the letter sound for most of the year. Of course doing lots of incidental alphabet work, but not directly together as I always felt this was too much information all at one time. However my Moderator said that the children could not be given this point if they could not name and sound the letter. Does this mean therefore that they could not achieve later scale points??? I was very confused Like you I read the Letters and Sounds document, but use Jolly Phonics as my main scheme. However, at the end of this year the Literacy Co-ordinator said that I should assess each child as to which Phase they had achieved and the fact that the majority of the children were not secure with naming and sounding all the letters of the alphabet seemed to indicate they were not were they should be. Next year therefore, I plan to introduce the name and sound together just to see how it goes; but I still think it is such a lot for the very young children (of which I have a lot of next year) to take on board - letter sound, letter name, correct letter formation, upper case/lower case - oh dear, I've got a headache already!!! I don't know if I have been of any help - perhaps I have just confused you even more - sorry don't intend to, but just to let you know that there are probably lots of us struggling with this. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Centurian, the profile points are not hierarchical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks Susan, Could I just ask then - if a child has not achieved scale point 4 for example, but they are confident with the later points, as a final assessment what scale point would you give them? Confused - sorry I've had a really bad day and my confidence has got up and gone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks Susan,Could I just ask then - if a child has not achieved scale point 4 for example, but they are confident with the later points, as a final assessment what scale point would you give them? Confused - sorry I've had a really bad day and my confidence has got up and gone!!! A child can achieve the scale points in any order they do not have to achieve 4 before they can get 5 for example. This year i had some children who may have achieved sp (scale point) 1, sp2, sp3 sp6, sp7 therefore they achieved 5 scale points in the area of lsl does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks ever so much Lola - all is clear now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I must add i do think is it crazy that scale point 4 includes sounds aswell as letter names - the letter names are so diffeicult for them to grasp where as most pick up sounds quite easily so its a shame that children are prevented from getting scale point 4 becaus eof this. I started to teach letter names with sounds last year - my HA coped fine but the others struggled so i dropped it. However i'm pondering trying it again this year!! not sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 A bit tired to be answering this query, but here goes. As Susan says, points not hierarchical, so could in theory achieve all others without achieving point 4. I don't teach letter names and sounds together, and I think Letters and Sounds suggests introducing them during Phase 3 (would need to check this!) and I think it says - if not already done - and I wouldn't do it with early sounds. I think many children come into school having sung 'the alphabet song' in one guise or other, either at home or in pre-school, and so know the names but don't associate them with letter symbols. We have continued this with the children, but made explicit the link between letter name and symbol by pointing out graphemes whilst singing the song. The more able/ready have made the connection, the rest haven't - I'm not particularly stressed as this is something that I think some children can cope with, for others knowing the sounds is far more important. For beginner readers blending/segmenting sounds is the important thing - letter names do have some impact/relevance later, so I don't think there's any harm in making children aware of the names, but as I say if children don't achieve point 4 I don't stress. I certainly don't go out of my way 'teaching' the names as in the scheme of things I don't believe it's that important at this stage. Sorry, rant over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I agree - i just think it is a shame when the sounds part of the point is easy to achieve for many yet it is the letter names part which prevents them from achieving it. Our advisor did say the governement are looking at breaking 3 point in thr fdp into 6 as they are too complex as one point and point 4 on lsl is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Letters and Sounds suggests that by singing the alphabet song every day for a couple of weeks the children will learn letter names!!! All that they learn is the song! I have been teaching names with sounds but only the higher ability children are remembering and using letter names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Hello, Have you checked with the preschools feeding into you that they are using the same methods as you, what are they teaching? They are supposed to be laying the foundations for good listening and getting children to tune in to different sounds. I feel its also very important to involve parents as often they do not understand phonics and are teaching their children things at home that confuse the child because they are not ready for it. Letter names at the age of 2 and name writing in capitals for example. Emma x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Can I just point out that the additional guidance exemplification for scale point 4 LSL is that the child knows "more letters than not" which means they don't have to know them all. There is no given amount but professional judgement might imply the most frequent/usual ones at least, I think.Not knowing the name of x for example would not preclude giving the point. I don't have my copy of the new doc to hand but that is the guidance so won't hav changed I don't think. The old handbook says all or almost all letter names. Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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