11 replies to this topic

[Shelley1]

Have just been on a very thought provoking BTTM course. The trainer was saying that often in nursery settings it is very much a case of "Happy 3rd birthday. Off you go now to the FS Curriculum". She was saying that there is very little carry over of the components of BTT, and that it can be such a dramatic change for children.

I would welcome any advice or views people have on how you carry BTT through to the FS.

[cat2]

very good question is there a right answer!!!!!

i work in a full day care and look after 2 and a half to 4 years, we use both BTTand FS. i used the cd in the BTT pack and wrote in the FS folder where the BTT linked. confused yet!!

as we know our children quite well as most of them are full time we decide when they are ready not just at three but when they feel ready to move on, majority are the term after they are 3.

most of the BTT is situated in the yellow section of the FS folder.

i feel the only large difference is the mathematical dev and communication,language/literacy and hopefully through observations you will know when to move that child forward.

i hope this is ok very hard to put into words

[Linda McDowell]

We have just started getting to grips with BTT as our children are 2 years 9 months when they start with us and so reach FS within a short space of time. But, I like the aspects and components and feel they are very appropriate for children beyond their third birthday. So we have activities that I link to both BTT and FS which we use for all the children. Some activities we use just for the younger group and those who are older but are struggling.
So I don't suppose we carry BTT over but merge it with FS and vice versa.
Linda

[Peggy]

Not sure what type, or how many settings the trainer has been into to come up with a quote such as " often in nursery settings it is very much the case of "Happy 3rd birthday. Off you go now to the FS Curriculum".

I have children aged 2 - 4 yrs and as they are all in the same room with a continuous provision of self selection, the children in my setting tend to move themselves on in areas they feel inclined to and play at the level they are at within each play area. Our role, as always, before BTTM or FSC was written still remains the same, which is to enable, scaffold, develop at the childs own pace.

If I am really honest my planning being so retrospective, we as adults fit to the child and we don't fit the child to the curriculum in any hiearchical or structured manner. We work with the children then translate what they have done relevant to the BTTM or FSC jargon, but irrelevant of the childs D.O.B.

Every childs assessment / achievement records shows BTTM and FSC criteria, whatever their age. I currently have a child aged 4 yrs who is in some areas still within BTTM yet in maths is achieving at green FSC level
I don't think that the term 'carry over' from BTT to FSC is a useful one, it makes it sound a bit like one bridges the other, BTT on one side and FSC on the other, I personally think they should be seen within the same continuum, a broad continuum where different aspect within it are introduced, experienced, met and then even revisited all at different levels.

This is I think why they have written the EYFS incorporating BTT into the FSC.
The tutor is of course right that there should not be a dramatic change between BTT and FSC. I don't think her statement is how it really happens except possibly ( and I don't know) in settings where children are placed in different age rooms. So maybe it is not about the practitioners interpretation of the BTT framework or the FSC and how they are implimented in terms of teaching styles but more about deployment of staff and children, staffing at different adult / child ratio's at this transition stage. A young 3 yr old being placed with 'age' peers at a more financially viable adult staff ratio. and therefore placed within experiences not meeting her BTTM needs.
Or have I got it completely wrong

Peggy

[Sue R]

Some of you may know that my setting has made some pretty drastic planning changes recently, which actually incorporate much of the BTTM philosophy, in that the children lead the learning. That's what I would consider the best approach to this transition(That dreaded word !!!) If you want to know more, pop along to my blog

Is that any help?

Sue

A quick PS here - FS doesn't actually start until the term AFTER the third birthday!! Of course, you all know that, but remind folks who don't!!

[Rea]

Quote "I don't think her statement is how it really happens except possibly ( and I don't know) in settings where children are placed in different age rooms."

Oh my poor Peggy, such an innocent view of the world . I recently asked the staff in the pre-school room if they work to the BTT guidance. The reply 'No, this is pre-school'. I did point out that some of their children were 3 yr olds but 'this is pre-school' was repeated to the degree taht another member of staff said 'ok you two stop arguing'. In the 2-3 room, I have asked if they have to have regard for the FS, reply was 'No'.

Like you, when I was in a church hall the children all mixed and moved forward themselves with our role being to support them and be ready to offer new challenges, not put them into boxes.


PS I do know nurseries where FS and BTT are used properly. :D

[Sue R]

Oh? Any examples ??

Sue (tongue in cheek, honest, Rea !!)

[Rea]

There is one in Nottingham that springs to mind. Maybe you know it? :D

[Sue R]

Hmmm....?


Well, I might have to think about that......


Sue xx

[Peggy]

Rea, on Nov 10 2006, 21:31, said:

Quote "I don't think her statement is how it really happens except possibly ( and I don't know) in settings where children are placed in different age rooms."

Oh my poor Peggy, such an innocent view of the world . I recently asked the staff in the pre-school room if they work to the BTT guidance. The reply 'No, this is pre-school'. I did point out that some of their children were 3 yr olds but 'this is pre-school' was repeated to the degree taht another member of staff said 'ok you two stop arguing'. In the 2-3 room, I have asked if they have to have regard for the FS, reply was 'No'.

Like you, when I was in a church hall the children all mixed and moved forward themselves with our role being to support them and be ready to offer new challenges, not put them into boxes.
PS I do know nurseries where FS and BTT are used properly. :D

Hmmm, your description of the 'preschool room' and seperate '2-3 yr rooms' was my point. or is it the fact that I put in brackets "I don't know" that gives me such an innocent view?? I'm confused, but it seems my guess ( although I didn't want to label) was right. :D

Rea, maybe you could let the tutor know about these mysterious nursery's that do get it right. :D It would be nice if the tutors message to students was from the positive instead of the negative, to prove an example. We get knocked by so many people it's about time our good practice was celebrated and exploited for training purposes rather than using bad examples to make us sit up and listen. ( if you know what I mean).

Peggy

[shirel]

I get quite mixed up with it all, I am with 2-3year olds and use the BT3M framework, but basically I feel that offering age appropriate activities throughout their play and allowing the children to lead is what comes naturally without any 'framework' to look out, I often plan and then link up what I have met afterwards, then consequently change lots of it during the week to suit the children, I have really been able to help towards our GOOD in all areas from Ofsted by putting in the expected links and basically showing them what they want, but i feel we really do it all naturally and as long as we are attentive and observant we can offer good provision and meet individual needs.
However I work with others who like to write a plan, stick to it rigidly and if we falter it's panic stations!!
I like the retrospective aspect - who can guess what the children will want to be playing with on certain days ??and what dynamics may affect the group,?? As long as you are well rescourced/aware of needs and have development knowledge surely we can all provide the best, - bl**dy planning!!!

[Rea]

Didnt mean to confuse you Peggy, I should have said ...
'Oh my poor Peggy, such an innocent view of the world, I USED TO HAVE THAT VIEW TOO'
It was a complete culture shock leaving a playgroup run from a church hall, to purpose built nurseries with seperate rooms for the different ages. I think I'm getting used to it, well, no I'm not but I am learning to put up with it. :D