Scores

[Guest]

hi i wonder if anyone can share what sort of scores your children are achiveing at the moment. my manager (you know the one! i moan about) said my scores are too high beacuse her's are not achieving that. i explained that the children are differnet and are actually being taught something in my class ( oopps slap my own wrist) i have the evidence to support it.

 

my main concern is linking sounds to letters and writing my top children know all the intial sounds can segement and blend cvc and ccvc words and read and write about half hfws. i have the evidience and given them the pionts to reflect this.

 

her top can read and write a few intial sounds only.

 

 

i think the trouble is that it reflects badly on her!

 

 

 

sorry end of another moan x

[Guest]

My top group can read CVC,sometimes with a little encouragement. 3 out of 16 can write 1/2 sentences completely independently, writing most sounds phonetically in an adult guided session- only 2 of these do this in their child initiated time. 8 can write a caption phonically with support - they can hear the individual phonemes, can write the letters, but not necessarily without an adult to keep them focussed! The others are beginning to write the first letter of some words- they can hear the initial (and some other phonemes) but arent; always sure which letter represents that sound. About half can write hfw (but ony phonetically spelt ones and look)

Your children to sound more advanced than mine - but I am still aiming high!

[Guest]

thanks for the reply what fsp scores have you given these chilsren? if you dont mind me asking.

 

also what are your overall scores for all areas for top middle, and bottom groups.

 

 

my top group are avergaing 70 to 76 overall.

middle groups 40- 50 ish

and bottom anthing from 18 to 40

 

 

does this sound about right we are in quite a poor area but i think the scores are ok but the manger said her children are all scoring from 0 to 30 this includes her 'top' children and she said mine should be scoring the same (personly i think this is low)

 

what do you think ?

 

im trying to ignore her as i have on going issues with her understanding of the foundation stage or lack of it anfd think she is wrong in what she says but need to know what others are scoring so she doesnt make me think im going mad .

thanks

[apple]

hi there clk7

sounds like you on target using sound judgements based on your teacher assessments and observations of your children. Scoring can be quite contentious especially if you don't have a particulalry strong working relationship with your colleague. It is important to remember that scores is relative and it is difficult to compare with the other class. One would hope that if you have planned together for the same experiences and content then the children should be pretty even. However, they can be a nubmer of factors why your children may be scoring higher; if the children came form your nursery (should you have one) they should be an equal balance in ability- therefore children should be about even on their scores. However, sometimes the classes do not get distrubuted evenly in terms of ability and it maybe that your colleague has a lower ability group. CHeck their baseline scores if you do them to see if there is any evidence of this

If the children have come to you from a number of pre-school settings then it is down to pot luck of who you get.

Another reason why they may not be achieiving as much as yours is either the delivery of the curriculum and moitoring and assessing or the simple fact that your colleague does not understand the FSP as you maybe do??

 

Have you looked at last years data for both classes to see if there is a pattern. In Birmingham you can access the FSP data which compares your school both locally and nationally; it makes for interesting and essential reader really if we are to know what we are doing well and where we still need to improve.

The most important thing is to have faith in yourself and your judgements. As long as you are able to say or provide evidence as to why your children are achieving these points then you should have no trouble:-)

If you are duw for a modertation visit or dur to attend a cluster meeting it might be an idea to raise these issues with your moderator.

Best of luck

apple

[Guest]

thanks

[Guest]

Can I but in and ask for one particular profile point - Writing point 5 'holds a pencil and uses it effectively to form recognisable letters, most of which are correctly formed'.

 

My writing scores last year were 16% below LEA scores - so I've been visited by our school LEA advisor to find out why scores were so low. Last year's group were actually a good group overall, with the top group writing confidently and most scoring 8 (didn't give any 9's although 2 or 3 were on the cusp). Quite a few in the middle group achieved a 5 and the striking area were the scores really dipped was for point 5 - the reason being that I had marked on the 'most of which are correctly formed' so ... if the child was writing 'a' as a circle and then attaching a stick, or if they were writing the whole of the 'one arm robot letters' from the bottom I didn't score them for this point. If I had, they would have achieved a 6 score and I wouldn't have been in deep water.

 

Our advisor suggested that maybe I was being too harsh, and that very few reception class children are forming letters correctly, and what was correct formation really. I argued that though they could do the first bits, surely if the letters weren't being 'correctly formed' they weren't fullfilling the criteria.

 

I've spoken to another FS teacher, who said she would have scored them ... to cover her own back.

 

What do you think? How would you score the children?

 

(I'm secretly hoping you're going to tell me I'm being mean )

 

Harricroft.

[Marion]

you're being mean

 

Now being serious

I think this is the big problem with the profile it's so open to interpretation........personally I don't give the mark if the child is doing ball and stick letters rather than our style but I know other teachers do.

[apple]

we lok at the word 'most' so we score them if above 20 letters are correctly formed as this seems to be most in our eyes... may be different with others

[Marion]

I would also score it if 20 or more of the letters were formed correctly.

[Guest]

Surrey guidance is at least 75% formed correctly. Ball and stick letters do not count as "correctly formed" in my opinion, either.

[Guest]

im with you on this one i did not give it to my children last year because yes they could write the letters and i could read them but they were not formed correclty balls and sticks as said above. this is a tough one, children in year 2 still cant achive this as they cant form there letters

[Susan]

I wouldnt have scored it from your description either, although I would have been looking at formation in a guided handwriting type activity too rather than just independent/ role play/ emergent writing, where skills are often not transfered.

[Guest]

Hi Harricroft - I don't think you're being mean, just thorough, professional and using assessment as a meaningful tool rather than a tick list. Shame on your LEA for putting you through the wringer for doing your job properly when they should actually be chasing up those people who are filling in the profile with their eyes closed. God it makes my blood boil. You go girl!

[Guest]

Doesn't this conversation just prove how pointless and timeconsuming the FSP is?

If 'they' can't make it less subjective and open to so many different interpretations then we should stop wasting our valuable teaching time and not do it! Just make a 'best fit' judgement and tick a box!

[Guest]

The heartening thing about this is that there seems to be a consensus amongst our group that we are all scoring it as it's written.... otherwise I agree with lots of others, what's the point. I suppose the only query is for me that often when I'm doing assessment for the school on writing it's based on an adult led, increasingly very prescribed task by the senior management team. The last two have been a task undertaken by the whole school, the first writing a letter to an author as a follow up to a literacy curriculum week in school based around his book. The second was a descriptive piece of writing based around a picture, the whole school did the task, prompts for the writing were differentiated slightly at my behest for Fs and KS1. So at that point the scores, or assessments I'm making in the writing assessment books are more based on a guided task than what the children do in their own planned activities. I do write notes on their work about other observations I've made though as a justification of my opinions.

 

 

AOB

[Guest]

I agree with everyone else so far- I would not give 'correctly formed'fro ball and stick letters. Recently I heard that the majority of asesments should be from child initiated activities. I personally find this hard to do for writing as many of the children who can write a little bit on their own, don't often choose to do so during their child initiated time,even though they may access the writing area and make a 'wordless' book. Do most people make their 'writing'assessments fromadult directed / initiated/ supported activities?

[Marion]

I try not to make my assessments from adult focused/supported activities if possible but I can't see a problem in askingt a child to go to the writing area or to write in the role play for example and use this.