Guest Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 At present, my staff have their own files (locked away), and only the staff member, myself, and my deputy have access to them. Their supervision notes are included in their files. Having been off for 2 days, I got back and had 4 members of staff (1 being a student), all asking to see me that day (it was my deputy's day off). They said that whilst I had been off, my deputy had been appalling - moody, bitching about others, bitching about me, and generally rude. I have heard all of this by rumour before, but have never had any concrete evidence, so I logged everything down, ready to speak to her on Friday when I next see her. I did not go home thinking "what a day", but instead am dead proud of my staff for coming to me - as now I am in a position to take further action. I am not going to mention staff names, but am going to be specific about her actions, how she has made people feel, and the impact her attitude is having on the nursery as a whole. The thing that worries me is that a copy of the notes will go into each of their files - which the deputy can access. I wouldn't put it past her to look to see who has complained about her. She never takes ownership for her behaviour, and will be looking to lay the blame elsewhere. Do deputies generally have access to supervision notes? What do you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Oh I see your deputy is still causing you trouble.... aren't they sly hey! they wait till the manager is away... the age old saying of 'while the cats away the mice will play' springs to mind! My deputy also has access to the staff files, which as you are realising can be a bit of a pain when you have stuff documented about her (that has been said by other staff) in the files of the staff who said it! (did that make sense? , been a long day LOL).... I had the same issue of staff approaching me in confidence about my deputy, me then having to write it down and then store the info... what i did was i stored it in a place i knew she wouldn't look (still kept locked away) but i stored it in the back of the SEN file. Had to make a mental note of where it was... but since that file has become my hiding place i always know where to find stuff that i will need but my deputy / senior will not need. I know its not ideal to have to 'hide' notes, but like you i did not want my deputy tracking down who had complained. Other than having a seperate file for staff files that only you have a key too im not sure how you could deal with that, typically i wouldn't have thought your deputy would need to access staff files.... i know at our place all staff emergency contacts / allergies etc are stored with children's emergency contacts anyway, and that's the only thing i could think your deputy would need as a matter of course (or indeed in an emergency)... so you could maybe store emergency info in that way and staff files seperatly with you only having a key..... hope you manage to sort it, and to semi understand this jumbled message LOL Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 When I worked as a deputy I did have access to all information relating to staff members. However, I did not see the need to go rifling through staff files, hunting for information to use as ammunition against others, because of an inappropriate event that I was the instigator of. It sounds like a totally unprofessional way of behaving, and I think you are doing the right thing in speaking to your deputy because you obviously cannot let her carry on in such a way. When I was manager of the pre-school, I refused my deputy access to any information relating to staff members for precisely this reason. She was really nosy and would, when bored, go for a read through them all. Hope you work out a a solution your problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 My deputy does not have access to the files of the rest of my staff, whether I am there or not. They are personal and confidential to each member of staff and I don't see the need for her to have access to them-and we have an excellent working relationship. Can I ask why you feel your deputy needs to have access to staff files? Any information she needs while you are absent, such as telephone numbers etc., should be available but we have completed appraisal forms in ours and I don't feel it is appropriate for anybody to have access to them other than myself and the member of staff they are for. And if OFSTED turn up while I am not there I tell my deputy to tell them that there are certain files she does not have access to. If they want to see them then they will have to contact me or wait for me to come back. If they are not happy with that then I would explain that I feel my staff have the right to confidentiality the same as anybody else. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Linda - it's "the way things always happened" (!!!) before I came along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I agree, personal records need to be kept personal or on a need to know basis - I suppose it really depends on how much you work together with your deputy and if you work together to conduct appraisals, staff issues etc then I beleive that the deputy should have access but it seems to me that there is a problem here and therefore you are in this position. Genereally I would say that I would want my deputy to know what was going on at all times and she should be entrusted but this is obviously where you have the problem. So I think that you are right in that you need to have a chat with your deputy. Nikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 (edited) It really has all reached a head, and I feel really cross with my my line manager for their lack of support. I had the meeting with my deputy and she cried and cried and cried and had to be sent home. She is not a supernumeray deputy, and basically wants x hours out of the room each day to be developing her room and to be doing deputy things. I cannot physically give her this, and also do not feel that it is appropriate. My line manager is now off in serach of funding to enable this to happen, so we can get someone else in to cover her. This will cause uproar with the other staff, and rightly so, and I do not see why it should be happening. Yes I agree in deputy time sometimes - but she gets this anyway. I told my line manager that if any other staff member was acting in the way she is, they would be on a disciplinary, and I have also told my deputy that if she continues, she will be too (sharp intake of breath from my line manager). I simply cannot abide unfairness. I cannot run a nursery like this. She is the senior member in her room, and is guiding a newly qualified. If she comes out more, then the room will slip further. Have spent the whole weekend looking for other jobs - have had enough now, and really feel very angry and emotional about it all. Have been off sick 3 times in the last 2 weeks - I think my body is telling me something. Edited November 26, 2006 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 X HOURS AS IN PLURAL???? What would she be doing in this time that she cannot do whilst doing her daily job??? So sorry to hear that work is so unhappy for you at the moment, it is so frustrating when individual personalities affect our lives and actually consume energy better spent on what we are all meant to be there for, the children. I can see why you are looking elsewhere. Line managers do not necessarily have to agree with their supervisors but in this instance, as you have done what you can do, your line manager should be looking at and recommending ways to resolving the issue and not excasserbating it. (excuse spelling) Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I just want to sent you a very big hug and to remind you that you are doing a great job there.I feel sad that you havent got the support that you need. BE STRONG!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Thanks Peggy and thanks Sonja - (forgot you were a member on this site!! ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sending you virtual empathy and best wishes, there is nothing worse than having all that bad feeling hanging over you - it takes it's toll so look after yourself Shelley and good luck with a speedy resolution to your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Shelley so sorry to hear of your problems. I know that I am so lucky to have a Deputy that I can trust and she has access to everything that I have as I feel that when I am not at work she is definately the 'acting manager' with everything that this entails. I am curious about your Deputy needing lots of time out not counted in ratios, if your line Manager works out a way to fund this let me know the secret! I am counted in the numbers, along with my Deputy most days. We are desperate for time out and 'office' time. Last of all I am only round the corner from you and if you need a cup of tea and a sympathetic ear Im sure that I can do this for you! We could use each other to bounce ideas and have a moan now and then. I really enjoy reading your comments on this site, don't give up we need people like you in this area! Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Thanks Teri - I really do promise to make it round to you soon - will you stretch to a mince pie as well??!! Only trouble is - I daren't leave the nursery!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 hi shelly sorry to hear about your troubles and I know how draining it is when one member of staff spoils the work environment our old deputy sounds like she was made from mold as yours shelly I hope its been broken!!! our deputy was paid additional hours to take work home but she wanted to do it during session times (and still get paid the extra hours!) I think she was looking for excuses to not interact with the children??? I hope everything works out for you it seems a shame that one member of staff should make you want to change jobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Shelley, so sorry to hear that things aren't going too great with your deputy. I have been there with mine, still am at times.... but im too bloody stubborn and won't leave, don't see why i should.... i got the job and not her, certanly sour grapes going on Im sorry to hear you feel so strongly that you need to look for another job, that's such a shame, as you sound a fab manager and quite clearly love the nursery you work in. I wish you luck with whatever you decide. Take care Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Have just had a 'day off' (I use the term very loosely!!!). My brand new, unqualified apprentice has just contacted me to say that my deputy walked out of the room unannounced, leaving the apprentice on her own with the children, for 20 mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I'm sorry, but Deputy needs 'carpeting'!! That is one of many reasons I left a job - total flouting of Standards - they are there for a reason!!! I support you 110%! Sue Ooh, PS - how many children? What age ? Sorry, just nosey - smacked wrist...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 8 children aged 3 to 5. NO other member of staff would have left her for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Whoops! Well, definitely speak! I would say you need to remind her that as Deputy she should be modelling Good, if not Exemplary practice. And put those capitals in, for reinforcement!!! Very good luck, i know hard it can be - big hug!! ((xxx)) Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I think it's gone beyond that now. This is far too serious - a deliberate breach of standards and our policy, thus putting the children's H & S at risk, amongst other things. Thanks for the virtual hug tho - that helped!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Yes, you got what I was meaning! Best of luck, I'm here for discussion if you need - open or PM. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I agree, if it was an employee of mine then definately a disciplinary matter. How awful for the apprentice to be left in such a situation and hopefully the children are none the wiser to the implications of the deputy's behaviour. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Yes, definitely a disciplinary matter - a verbal warning at the very least, it depends whether you have had any previous issues/discussions with this member of staff relating to conduct, flouting of standards and policies, etc. whether you go any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 At present, my staff have their own files (locked away), and only the staff member, myself, and my deputy have access to them. Their supervision notes are included in their files. Having been off for 2 days, I got back and had 4 members of staff (1 being a student), all asking to see me that day (it was my deputy's day off). They said that whilst I had been off, my deputy had been appalling - moody, bitching about others, bitching about me, and generally rude. I have heard all of this by rumour before, but have never had any concrete evidence, so I logged everything down, ready to speak to her on Friday when I next see her. I did not go home thinking "what a day", but instead am dead proud of my staff for coming to me - as now I am in a position to take further action. I am not going to mention staff names, but am going to be specific about her actions, how she has made people feel, and the impact her attitude is having on the nursery as a whole. The thing that worries me is that a copy of the notes will go into each of their files - which the deputy can access. I wouldn't put it past her to look to see who has complained about her. She never takes ownership for her behaviour, and will be looking to lay the blame elsewhere. Do deputies generally have access to supervision notes? What do you suggest? please could I ask what questions you ask staff in supervisions if it is not being cheeky. I have just taken over a nursery and never carried one out before thank you killowengirl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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