Writing Point 4

[emmajess]

(writes his/her own name and other words from memory)

 

Sorry to be stupid, but do I or do i not give this point if they don't write words from memory other than their name (not to, or mum etc) but do sound out and spell correctly words like mum, lost, crispin etc. What i mean is, if they write a common word by sounding it out and / or write trickier words, too by sounding it out, can I give them this point. They don't write mum from memory because they sound it out. Does this make sense? and please can you help! Loads of pretty decentish writers not getting this point because they sound out words (some of which are relatively complex, eg 2 syllables) but don't know words other than their name automatically, without thinking.

 

please give me your answers!!!! Sorry - it's driving me mad!

[green hippo]

I remember this profile point when I taught reception! I used to be guided by their ability to write the tricky words that couldn't be sounded out e.g. said, come, etc. I found that a lot of children would always say the letters as they were writing them - whether or not they were having to sound them out.

 

Hope this helps

Green Hippo xx

[emmajess]

The thing that I'm finding most tricky is that I know the points aren't hierarchichal, so someone who's good at sounding out mightn't be good at writing words from memory, but the example is someone writing really familiar words from memory -it's not tricky words in the example. so you might get someone bright and sparky in nursery who can write her family's names but hasn't yet learnt to sound out words. It kind of seems like this is a point that some children might skip over - they write their own name, but not much else, then they learn to sound out and become more confident in writing, but haven't yet learnt to write trickier words from memory. So if children have never really written words that are familiar to them from memory, do they not get this point until they can write trickier words from memory? they don't need to write their family's names from memory as they are sounding everything out now... Don't know if this makes any sense... It's just that with the examples it kind of seems like this should be an 'easier', 'earlier' point to get. If they don't have such a visual memory or sight cocabulary, they won't get this point, maybe for a while?

[Susan]

Personally I think that if they are using their sounds to write then they are writing from memory and I would award the point.

[Guest]

Personally I think that if they are using their sounds to write then they are writing from memory and I would award the point.

 

I agree with Susan.

 

Most of the children who can sound out quite complex words probably do know words like mum, dad etc but they are taught so well to sound out that that is what they automatically do.

[Guest]

I agree with Susan and what can we expect when we now spend so much time teaching them to blend and segment! Knowing their sounds is memory so I would alsways award the point

[Guest]

They will still be doing this sounding out as they write even in Y1 and 2 and beyond (indeed even in Y7 as I found out when I was a secondary teacher!)

 

'From memory' is not a good expression of what they mean, I think. It is a long time before children start 'seeing' words like that in their writing, especially with this current strong emphasis on phonics. In fact, I think we are probably developing a generation of children who will find it hard to spell irregular words and also to speed read (where you're meant to not sound words out) if that makes sense.

[emmajess]

Brilliant! Thank you! That works much better as it also means that children who are applying their phonics really well in monosyllabic words get some recognition, even if they are not doing more complex words (like fireworks). That has made it fall into place better. It's so daft, because each year I have different points that give me trouble - I don't know if it's different cohorts, or me thinking them through more and more thoroughly as time goes on - or me getting more and more stupid! Thanks for all your help.

x E

[Marion]

The guidance says it can be any words including names of family members

The child writes his or her first name, as well as some other words. These may be key words that are important

to him or her, such as ‘mum’, ‘dad’, ‘cat’ and perhaps the names of other family members.

 

I would give the point if the child was able to write some words without using a "model" to copy from segmenting to spell is fine in my opinion

[emmajess]

The guidance says it can be any words including names of family members

The child writes his or her first name, as well as some other words. These may be key words that are important

to him or her, such as ‘mum’, ‘dad’, ‘cat’ and perhaps the names of other family members.

 

I would give the point if the child was able to write some words without using a "model" to copy from segmenting to spell is fine in my opinion

 

 

It's this guidance that has muddled me! How many children write 'cat' from memory in the same way as they write their name? Some might write their brother John's name like that, but what if their brother is called Theodore (for instance!)? Maybe there's a huge gap in my teaching / observation of children in my class but children seem to write 'cat' once they have got a letter/sound correspondence for the letters in this word, and hear and say sounds in words (which is a later point - I know they're not hierarchical, but...). Then they sound it out. By the time they are so familiar with the word 'cat' that they write it from memory without any thought for sounds, the achievement of writing their name from memory is long past - so surely wouldn't be relevant to the same point. Which is why it makes sense to me that using their sounds (accurately, quickishly!) counts as from memory, as it seems more evenly placed in developmental terms with writing their name from memory. Segmenting to spell being valid makes sense.

What do you think?

[Marion]

My children bring me pictures/labels and lists of words such as mum, dad, cat and dog after they have become confident in segmenting cvc words but aren't really consciously segmenting the word either.

I would give the point if the child was independently producing written words without having to copy from a "model"

[Guest]

My children bring me pictures/labels and lists of words such as mum, dad, cat and dog after they have become confident in segmenting cvc words but aren't really consciously segmenting the word either.

I would give the point if the child was independently producing written words without having to copy from a "model"

Me too. Some of our children independently write the words they've been practising in their phonics groups and then I would give them the point definitely.

[emmajess]

Lovely! Thanks for helping me pull this point apart!