Stargrower Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 So at last it's official. I attended a Local Authority meeting this morning and we were told that our funding would be cut from next April. At present my LA pays increasing amounts of funding depending on the highest level of qualification of staff working with three and four year olds. So if you have an EYP/EYT you get a higher rate, level 4 or 5 a bit lower, level 3 the base rate. This is all being scrapped and from April we will all get the base rate. This will mean a drop of about 30p per hour per child for us. No reward for doing as we were told and employing a graduate led workforce. Add to this the living wage, auto enrolement and 30 hours at a lower rate instead of 15, and I don't know how sustainable my lovely, full daycare nursery will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Stargrower, has your LA decided yet how much and which supplements they will be paying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 There was no mention of it. I think we're the same LA lsp...Suffolk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Yes I think this was one of the issues that many of us responded to in the national funding consultation, which closed in September, ie the losing of any additional funding for 'quality'. We haven't had the response to this consultation yet, but we can but hope there will be a rethink if enough people responded. May not help your situation at this point though if this decision has already been made in your LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Our LA urged everyone to respond to the consultations and sent out several email reminders but it seems the response has been quite low. Apparently Suffolk has to save £3 million over two years from their Early Years budget. We were told that we are one of 25% of LAs that will see big cuts with the other 75% staying the same or increasing their funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I've had my 'proposed' statement come today and it's actually better than feared, an increase of 11p an hour, no qualification increment available on ours and our ofsted rating increment has been has been dropped, it looks as if ours will give extra depending on deprivation, proximity & sufficiency, we would pick the 'proximity' increment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 have you looked here? worth knowing this info I think!! https://www.pre-school.org.uk/eynff/123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 There was no mention of it. I think we're the same LA lsp...Suffolk? Just over the border - Norfolk. We have been informed that there will be a local 'consultation' to give our views on which supplements LA will offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 have you looked here? worth knowing this info I think!! https://www.pre-school.org.uk/eynff/123 The calculator is telling me we'll get way more than what we were told today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 so in theory Suffolk would be £4.39....what are they suggesting you will get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJA Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Norfolk - we got the info last night. Our rate will drop as well due to there not being the Quality supplement. They also told us that the trials are showing that parents are moving their children from settings without 30hrs to those with, regardless of whether they were happy and settled at that setting. This worries me as I don't think I can afford to offer 30hrs to all of our parents due to the reduction in funding... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 so in theory Suffolk would be £4.39....what are they suggesting you will get? £3.95! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Norfolk - we got the info last night. Our rate will drop as well due to there not being the Quality supplement. They also told us that the trials are showing that parents are moving their children from settings without 30hrs to those with, regardless of whether they were happy and settled at that setting. This worries me as I don't think I can afford to offer 30hrs to all of our parents due to the reduction in funding... Yes we have had children leaving to go to the nursery at out local primary school who have been offering 32.5 hours free for three years now. I hope, if we do manage to make it sustainable, that in September 17 this will be a thing of the past as we will be able to offer 30 hours too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 £3.95! have they given you the figures that this is worked out on? I think I would be quoting the figures from the psla info and asking them to justify their amounts! if this fails then your MP's and councillors ought to be informed and asked to justify too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne123 Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Norfolk - we got the info last night. Our rate will drop as well due to there not being the Quality supplement. They also told us that the trials are showing that parents are moving their children from settings without 30hrs to those with, regardless of whether they were happy and settled at that setting. This worries me as I don't think I can afford to offer 30hrs to all of our parents due to the reduction in funding... You must have been at the same meeting as me. Worrying days ahead! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37953055 I'd like the average :-/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaMum Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37953055 I'd like the average :-/ Me too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tish501 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 In Suffolk at mo with our graduate in place,,,,we get £4.24,but after last weeks meeting ...10% reduction so about £3.84 in April 2017.... getting confused...so many crossed wires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadOaks Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 That NFF calculator is based on rates of a Councils average spend, during the period. So it is not very accurate for all settings. Our base rate is actually just £2.50 (approx) at the moment before supplements (Our QTS / EYT Supplement increases this by £1 per hour per child) So giving a base rate of £3.50 approx. Then other supplements increase this further.. depravity adding approx 80p for children who qualify, opening over 50 weeks per year adds around 40p and over 10 hours per day adds approx 40p too.. so it accumulates to a decent hourly funding rate of approx £5 per hour! So, to work out the average funding "base rate" is not accurate on that website, due to it using spend figures from 15/16.. and many setting in particular areas will receive vast differences in funding due to the supplements etc.. so this rate could be as low as £3 per hour in some settings. I therefor don't have much faith in this calculator at the moment. The only thing I am hoping for is that, due to the higher funding maintained schools receive at the moment.. and with this being (i believe) brought in line with the average funding amounts, this should bring up the funding of the PVI settings.. if we also add the less central spend being allowed.. it only stands to reason this would happen. I am sure all settings would be happy to receive £5 per hour per child.. Our LA are extremely advanced I feel, setting up monthly payments back in the beginning of 2015.. and allowing increase funding for QTS, EYT staff (improving quality?) and good supplement amounts at this time also. I do understand many LA's are not as good.. if not most LA's.. we are lucky. So .. yes It is a worry that the funding might go down, of course. I do feel it should improve for many due to mainly the NFF being fair for all childcare settings, maintained or not and the less retention allowed for LA's.. it stands to reason for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 We will still be under £4 and we get no supplements. Graduate leader money stopped a long while ago....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadOaks Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I really do find it amazing how different each LA can set their own rules on logistics and administration of funding to providers! It is actually ridiculous and this new "fairer" national funding must be a positive thing in this regard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 our county is dropping the qualification and ofsted grading increments and where many of our settings will drop approx 30p and hour :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Shall we let out a group scream...........after three.........1,2,3 AARRRGHHHHHHHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 our county is dropping the qualification and ofsted grading increments and where many of our settings will drop approx 30p and hour :-/ So what exactly is the benefit of making your setting the best it can be?? Forget the usual platitudes.....pride, doing the best you can for children etc etc, this is quite frankly taking the pee!!! The whole Early Years Sector is continually being pushed and harangued to Improve, improve, improve!!!! For what gain? To please whom? Sorry being proud of what you do......doesn't pay the bills! This really is the pits. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 I believe it is the government who has said no supplements for quality under the new funding system. LA's can decide how they pay the other supplements. Norfolk has asked settings for their views but there is talk of flexibility, rural locations etc. There will still be payments for deprivation, I think????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpymum Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Yes we have had children leaving to go to the nursery at out local primary school who have been offering 32.5 hours free for three years now. I hope, if we do manage to make it sustainable, that in September 17 this will be a thing of the past as we will be able to offer 30 hours too. Our nearest school complains about funding levels and having to pay teachers on this amount, so how on earth do they afford to give away all these extra hours?? I think most of our local schools offer the 15 hours as 2 1/2 days per week so they can fit in as many children as possible, so I guess if they offer 30 hours (without opening earlier and later) they will only take half as many chidlren.... hmmmm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 can I just say that supplements are not supplements! in my understanding the LEA is given an amount for schools, part of which goes to early years. They set a base rate out of this and then add on the 'supplements'...of course what is actually happening is that they are giving us less not more(IYSWIM) so in other words if they say £5 per hour per child....then set their base rate at £4 then give us varying amounts 'back' (probably not up to the upper limit of £5) in order to pay for the additional support for settings. Our 'supplements' Have never been paid for quality (annoying with 2 outstandings!) ours are paid for areas of deprivation (based on registered postcodes) and staff qualifications especially that of the lead (again a pain as I am only level 3 even though I employ degree level!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadOaks Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 We get "supplements" for flexibility (opening hours), depravity (per post code) and quality (QTS/EYT employed) and according to the new fairer funding scheme the only one I can't see is quality and this seems to have been replaced with SEN although it appears the SEN includes derivation. Also only 10% of the funding is allocated to Supplements.. so these will most likely reduce in any case! it is all still very confusing but one thing is for sure... Many articles talk about the huge loss to Nursery Schools (maintained) including this one below: http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1158588/sector-response-early-years-national-funding-formula Nursery schools However, Unison voiced concern about the future of maintained nursery schools, which stand to lose out with significant cuts to their funding. So it appears that they must receive higher funding.. with only opening 38 weeks of the year and from 9am - 3pm (approx) so basically many less hours! OR they receive the same funding but the money is only used on wages due to not having the same costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 We get "supplements" for flexibility (opening hours), depravity (per post code) and quality (QTS/EYT employed) and according to the new fairer funding scheme the only one I can't see is quality and this seems to have been replaced with SEN although it appears the SEN includes derivation. Also only 10% of the funding is allocated to Supplements.. so these will most likely reduce in any case! it is all still very confusing but one thing is for sure... Many articles talk about the huge loss to Nursery Schools (maintained) including this one below: http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1158588/sector-response-early-years-national-funding-formula So it appears that they must receive higher funding.. with only opening 38 weeks of the year and from 9am - 3pm (approx) so basically many less hours! OR they receive the same funding but the money is only used on wages due to not having the same costs? BroadOaks, I think you'll find you get supplements for deprivation not depravity which means something else altogether! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 Our nearest school complains about funding levels and having to pay teachers on this amount, so how on earth do they afford to give away all these extra hours?? I think most of our local schools offer the 15 hours as 2 1/2 days per week so they can fit in as many children as possible, so I guess if they offer 30 hours (without opening earlier and later) they will only take half as many chidlren.... hmmmm It's been a bugbear of mine for ages. The school has been 'requires improvement' for three inspections in a row. After I asked the LA to find out how they were offering an extra 17.5 hours a week free, it turns out the school are funding it out of their own budget. I'm guessing it is to get numbers up. Judging by the amount of children we lose to them, it has worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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