Guest Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Went to a meeting last week - we are sessional - share/rent facilities so can't be flexible, no deprivation criteria, and quality is in the form of QTS or EYPS which we do not have (by the way EYPS is not recognised as high financially in our area as QTS - so EYPS settings on a lesser amount.) Based on a quick calculation from the info we were given on the night, the base rate will be less than what we have now (20p per child per hour), and as it is out of our control to provide the 'incentives' to top up the funding we shall be running at approx £1,500 less per year! Also what we want to know is:- - Why deprivation is classed as an incentive? Surely practitioners give the same amount of care and attention to every child regardless of where they come from - and what exactly constitutes deprivation? Surely this is subjective? - Why EYPS staff are worth less than QTS? so why push for EYPS in every setting? - Is there any transitional or buffer funding for groups which through no fault of theirs cannot provide the 'incentives'? What is the hidden agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Anybody going to get more..........anybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Went to a meeting last week - we are sessional - share/rent facilities so can't be flexible, no deprivation criteria, and quality is in the form of QTS or EYPS which we do not have (by the way EYPS is not recognised as high financially in our area as QTS - so EYPS settings on a lesser amount.) Based on a quick calculation from the info we were given on the night, the base rate will be less than what we have now (20p per child per hour), and as it is out of our control to provide the 'incentives' to top up the funding we shall be running at approx £1,500 less per year! Also what we want to know is:- - Why deprivation is classed as an incentive? Surely practitioners give the same amount of care and attention to every child regardless of where they come from - and what exactly constitutes deprivation? Surely this is subjective? - Why EYPS staff are worth less than QTS? so why push for EYPS in every setting? - Is there any transitional or buffer funding for groups which through no fault of theirs cannot provide the 'incentives'? What is the hidden agenda? I agree - we sent back our questionairre back saying the same surely they are discriminating against children who do not live in a deprived area - we have fantastic staff who have helped us to achieve an outstanding in all areas after only being open a year - but do they take that into consideration - I think not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 i am in gloucestershire nothing has been said yet awaiting letter. it will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) This has been my points against ihe proposals!! Deprivtion in our area is being decided by the settings postcode, nothing to do with where the child lives or personal circumstances. These groups in a deprived area are getting an extra 20 pence per hour per child. Ridiculous situation as a group that only got satisfactory in their last ofsted will now get more funding per child then a group that got outstanding, crazy. When I complained I was told it was a goverment decision re the deprivation thing and out of LA's hands? When NEG first started (going back to the voucher system) deprivation was high on the list of those parents that got it as well as a number of other criteria, I complained then that there was no equal opps and here we are again, as someone has already said surely we are all giving the same care and attention, Just because your setting is on one side of the road it is deemed to be more worthy for extra money- not exactly helping anyone who really needs it. I am now waiting to see how they can justify giving us less money per hour then we get at present but tell us we have to open for longer?? It does make me wonder if there is some sort of hidden agenda, to get rid of most of the pvi settings??? Edited October 6, 2009 by lynned55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 We're already in our 15 hours, limited flexibility, with the single funding formula in final stages of consultation and due to be implemented in April. We've moved to hourly rates this year and it has been fine. Last year we were concerned - having just moved and taken on a £150K loan - that if they introduced the proposed forumula we would go bust. We shouted quite loudly and they went back to the drawing board (because lots of settings shouted), and set up a reference group to which we sent a committee member who ended up representing the voluntary sector. He has managed to get an additional differentiation - don't know if it is a premium as such - to recognise the vast differences in preschool rent/building costs (from peppercorn to a mega-loan like ours). Ours is to be adjusted for flexibility, possibily quality (not sure ...), possibly qualifications (I am very concerned that if the Graduate Premium Fund dries up that the NEF scheme is going to have to pick that up) and possibly deprivation - though as others have said, I think the postcode lottery is not a good scheme. Waiting to see the final scheme to see how much we lose out in the end ... They are also keeping a payment for the heads of maintained nurseries. In the latest consultation I pointed out that we can't afford to pay for both managerial and administrative hours (taking into account all the best-practice advice on management meaning lots more actually managing, reviewing, mentoring, assessing, appraising, etc, and the extra work involved in flexibility), and we have an EYP who is not paid as much as a NQT even though in the qualifications guidance they are on a par, and suggested that they keep some of that money to help us pay for our manager! We shall see ... It's not really very 'single', this funding formula. Also, I noticed that someone mentioned not being able to pay for inset days. We queried this with the NEF team this year and they said that NEF is paid on a weekly basis and 'level playing field' and all, we could take the 5 training days out of the year that the maintained sector has. I hope the advice was right because we have booked 5 days off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyjane31 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 we have been given our rate that will be effective from april 2010 which is actually slightly more than we have now it will be £3.69 an hour which includes 21p for area of deprivation and 21p is a transitional rate. There will also be supplements for flexibility but we don't know how much yet but have been told it will be an additional 5-25% depending on how flexible our sessions are. We are in Cambridgeshire and are currentlly paid £3.38 per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Does anybody know what the funding rate will be for Birmingham, not deprived area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 We were told we would not be receiving any less than we get now. I have to say at the moment it is being done in a fair and transparent manner with all sectors at the meetings (so it should) . I do feel it is the maintained sector most worried but why fund empty places?????. There will be supplements to settings for SEN, deprivation and flexibility but it will not be same for everyone as settings have different direct/indirect costs. Our next meeting is next week. We will not be told officially till next year what we will all receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 The deprivd rate in our area is based on the child's post code not the settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fimbo Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 i am in gloucestershire nothing has been said yet awaiting letter. it will be interesting. i am also in Gloucestershire - had a invitation to the consulation event -dates are 3rd,5th,10th,12th nov in either chelt or barnwood. it looks like im going to have to re-read this thread and make some notes to take, as its all sounding rather confusing to me ! had you had yours yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I've just been invited to join our LA working group on the SFF (surprise, surprise they want my opinion - they were getting it anyway!) and I've come back on this thread to remind myself about what I want to ensure I mention. So far I've got: - making sure EYPS and QTS are classed as equivalents when determining quality/leadership - allowing PVI settings INSET days if the maintained sector get to have them still Can you think from your exprience/reading/thinking of anything else I must bring up? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 You must point out that the PVI sector must have an element of profit based into the rate. We do not make any money from the younger ages or our prices would be off the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thanks. I will add that to my list. Feel like I had loads of things I wanted to raise but as soon as the invite arrived they went straight out of my head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 http://www.cypnow.co.uk/news/ByDiscipline/...s/login/946825/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Does anybody know what the funding rate will be for Birmingham, not deprived area. I dont know the answer to that Sheila but this might be an interesting read, its the Early Years Single Funding Formula: Consultation document, closing date Dec. 11th. Birmingham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Marion - thanks for the link. I have looked on the Early Education website but I can't seem to find the download of the kit. You don't happen to be able to see it do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 went to our area meeting last night......and there was outrage from many attendees, particularly when it was announced that childminders who are accredited will get an increase in funding of 120% over other groups etc. Now, I can understand we all need to have more money coming in, but the chap giving our presentation smiled at us and said 'well, it's to reflect their committment, training and professionalism'! he barely got out with his life! He also told us that traditionally, childminders are 'vastly underpaid'..................aren't we all?? and don't the rest of us have the necessary 'committment, professionalism and training'?? Several of us suggested that we should, perhaps, take up childminding instead and he....and one of the other bods said, 'well of course, they all come to you eventually, parents want them in settings just before they go to school, don't they?' one other thing that cropped up: parents who live in 'designated' 'deprived areas' will not be told that their child gets extra funding, 'to spare them embarrassment'........but settings WILL be told which children get it.Is that ethical? can WE be told, if parents aren't?? would it be better to simply say we have been given some extra funding this time, for whatever reason, since surely, we treat all children the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 We have been called to a meeting this afternoon regarding the future of future funding. SFF, Capital, Graduate Leader Fund, and NEG and how it links with outcomes. Wish me luck. I am still seething after the guardian article yesterday. I have 32 staff and 200 children and parents/carers to worry about. It is about creating a level playing field in all sectors so no child is at disadvantage. But I think pay still is an important issue. If we provide the same service with highly qualified staff we should be in a position to pay well above minimum wage for the future of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 local paper reported out two CC which take children are in discussions and consultation with parents and may end up closing... seems funding is no longer sufficient to cover the costs. Both these were new builds for purpose, and I do wonder if they will both survive. One replaced a very good preschool and employed the staff at an improved wage.. I did often wonder how long the funding would be there to subsidise these settings, its now catching up with them.. preschool I left is better off all round from this.. location has a lot to do with that in an area where we always have a lot of parents and children who need additional support. Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Marion - thanks for the link. I have looked on the Early Education website but I can't seem to find the download of the kit. You don't happen to be able to see it do you? Here's a link to the press release announcing the kit - scroll down the page and you can see the various downloads available. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 went to our area meeting last night......and there was outrage from many attendees, particularly when it was announced that childminders who are accredited will get an increase in funding of 120% over other groups etc. Now, I can understand we all need to have more money coming in, but the chap giving our presentation smiled at us and said 'well, it's to reflect their committment, training and professionalism'! he barely got out with his life! He also told us that traditionally, childminders are 'vastly underpaid'..................aren't we all?? and don't the rest of us have the necessary 'committment, professionalism and training'?? Several of us suggested that we should, perhaps, take up childminding instead and he....and one of the other bods said, 'well of course, they all come to you eventually, parents want them in settings just before they go to school, don't they?' one other thing that cropped up: parents who live in 'designated' 'deprived areas' will not be told that their child gets extra funding, 'to spare them embarrassment'........but settings WILL be told which children get it.Is that ethical? can WE be told, if parents aren't?? would it be better to simply say we have been given some extra funding this time, for whatever reason, since surely, we treat all children the same? Can't wait for our meeting - love a good punch up!! I don't think my parents know how much the local authority gives us really, a couple of years ago they may have when there was the earlier trouble over top ups stopping etc. but now, they just accept free means free for 12.5 hrs, because that's all they can do with us anyway, except if they choose to their child can attend lunch club which they have to pay for. Would you as a pre-school have to say anything to the parents about how much you are receiving on behalf of their child, can they not just know that it is "free" for the 12.5 or 15 hrs their child attends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks Maz - I found it last night but I swear it wasn't there when Marion posted the link! I've been downloading other LA's consultations and annotating furiously before my meeting on Friday. Just received the agenda and it seems our LA is way behind the rest, but that means we have to have a meeting every two weeks to catch up - grrr! Don't they realise I have another job to do too (well 2 if you want to get picky). I guess they might be banking on that by inviting me cos then they think I won't go to all the meetings - wrong! Anyway I'm still searching for any other viewpoints and suggestions, so if anyone has any more please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just noticed this on twitter (I'm following Aspect but I'm not a member - yet). Aspect say "let's stop arguing about the size of each slice, the answer to funding issues is a bigger cake". Couldn't agree more. I don't even want chocolate icing and sprinkles on top - just a good. honestly made cake with wholesome ingredients that provides the fuel we need to keep body and soul together. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugbabe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 As far as I can tell we will be 20pence down on current funding levels This can be recouped if we have the extra qualifications of one level 4 plus a graduate (we already have 50% of staff qualified to level 3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fimbo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 at worst we will be 6p per hour worse off (18p per child per session) and at best...well thats anyones guess as we wont know exactly how much money we are going to get until it magically appears in the bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela41 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 at worst we will be 6p per hour worse off (18p per child per session) and at best...well thats anyones guess as we wont know exactly how much money we are going to get until it magically appears in the bank account. Hi All, The statement from the head of Early Years in December sad they were still waiting to hear from the government about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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