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Wildflowers

Secondary teacher in ratios?

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A supply agency tells me that a person with a secondary qualification is counted as qualified for early years. I said that to my knowledge they are not. They claim that they checked this and had it confirmed, so sent us a secondary teacher. I'm paying much to meet legal requirements, when I could have worked with an able parent or someone else I know without a qualification.

Edited by Wildflowers
Late night typo

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Well, that's really interesting isn't it? My immediate reaction was the same as yours 'No' but then looking at the qualifications audit tools and QTS is a 'Yes'. It doesn't specify the nature of the QTS or the age range trained for, which is not what I would have expected. I wonder if any of our friends on here have any further knowledge? In the meantime, I'm going to email DfE for clarification and also Ofsted. I'll let you know what they say.

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I would be very interested in this as we have a secondary teacher and we treat as unqualified.

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1 hour ago, diesel10 said:

I would be very interested in this as we have a secondary teacher and we treat as unqualified.

Indeed, I've emailed Gill Jones. I'll let you know what happens

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As far as I know, they are a qualified teacher and as such qualified to teach any age range. I am 3 - 7 on my degree but can teach in secondary if I wanted to!!  I've worked with secondary who have gone to primary and vice versa.

Cx

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But the knowledge and understanding needed to support young children's development and learning is so different from that needed for teenagers! 

  • Thanks 1

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Each individual person will have their own training/experience which may or may not make them want to work with any particular age group - but teachers are not essentially defined by one age range and are able to move across phases. That's what QTS confers I guess.

Cx

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Rebecca did you find anything out about this? I am keen to know as I have two staff leaving soon.  Our secondary school teacher is currently classed as unqualified.

 

Thank you

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I'd have assumed the same as you; that she would need further training to be classed for early years ratio.  

 

(Having said that, some of the teenagers I've worked with have acted like 3 year olds, so perhaps it's not that much different! )

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From the DfE website

Qualified teacher and early years teacher status

Staff count towards the EYFS staff:child ratios at level 3 or 6 if they have been awarded:

  • qualified teacher status (QTS)
  • early years teacher status (EYTS)
  • early years professional status (EYPS)

It doesn't define any specific age range of teaching.

Cx

Edited by catma

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so...and I may be being a bit dim here....if you have a degree (level 6) then you can have a 1-13 ratio...is this correct? my degree led professional to my knowledge does not have eyts eyps but does have a degree

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7 hours ago, finleysmaid said:

so...and I may be being a bit dim here....if you have a degree (level 6) then you can have a 1-13 ratio...is this correct? my degree led professional to my knowledge does not have eyts eyps but does have a degree

It's not the degree that makes the difference it's the teacher/EYP status - does your graduate have teacher or EYP status 

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3 hours ago, Rebecca said:

It's not the degree that makes the difference it's the teacher/EYP status - does your graduate have teacher or EYP status 

no ....the eyp didn't exist when she did her degree! I find this really confusing the statutory framework mentioned degree i'm sure...i'll have to go back and re-read :o

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 For children aged three and over in registered early years provision where a person with Qualified Teacher Status, Early Years Professional Status, Early Years Teacher Status or another suitable level 6 qualification is working directly with the children36:  •

so this is the quote from the statutory framework....what then is another suitable level 6 qualification????

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Im not sure but there are lots listed on the qualification checker.  Very confusing.  My LEA have said someone might have a PGCE but not QTS!

 

 

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I wrote to Ofsted and got this reply:

The National College for Teaching and Leadership is responsible for determining which qualifications are considered relevant under the Early Years Framework or Childcare Register Requirements. 

The Department for Education has made a list of these qualification available at its website, which you can access here: Early Years Qualification List.

Should you have queries regarding this list please contact the Department for Education on: 0370 000 2288

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On 07/12/2017 at 17:50, diesel10 said:

Im not sure but there are lots listed on the qualification checker.  Very confusing.  My LEA have said someone might have a PGCE but not QTS!

 

 

Technically it's possible. To be awarded QTS fully you have to complete a full induction programme within a school/s and this is what gives you the right to teach in any school including maintained schools. So a person could have a PGCE but not have completed the final part of getting QTS which is to be signed off as having completed the NQT induction year.

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On 06/12/2017 at 15:04, Rebecca said:

It's not the degree that makes the difference it's the teacher/EYP status - does your graduate have teacher or EYP status 

That's the distinction! E.g. I've got a B.Ed(Hons) degree which makes me a level 6 but because I have completed the requirements for Qualified Teacher Status, and have the relevant qualifications I need for that, and I've completed/passed the statutory induction programme I am also QTS.

If I hadn't done the induction I could still be a relevant level 6, I wouldn't have QTS but I could still be classed as a relevant level 6.(And I could teach in any other type of school except maintained.)

 

Edited by catma

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I'm not sure if you have QTS you can teach any age range.  I am qualified through my PGCE to teach 3-11 (because my PGCE had early years as a specialism) however, I couldn't teach at secondary because my degree is in Business (unless Business was offered as an option) and for secondary teaching your degree must relate to what you are teaching.  Ie if you are an English teacher your degree must be in English etc.  I agree, it would be ridiculous to send a secondary teacher to cover early years unless they had some early years experience or expertise but the framework does give QTS as the standard, it should be specific.

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