http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulleti...seryWorldUpdate

Just clocked that myself!!

Hmm....have they been reading this forum, do you think ?

Sue

woo! why are we not surprised! There may be a different government by then too, sooooo........

Hooooooooooooooooooooooorahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

that will please my providers

And there I was feeling really guilty because I hadn't bothered to attend any meetings!

ahhh, but i noticed the magic 'pathfinder' word !!! whats the betting my LA will be one of them

I had an email about this from Early Education. Re Pathfinders it says,

"Those local authorities who are ready to implement the formula from April 2010, are likely to be invited by the Government to take part as pathfinders so that their experiences can be used to share effective practice with other local authorities."

Hooray!!! can it be delayed indefinately!!!
Julie

Well I'm a bit torn here ..... under the proposed SFF for our LA we would have received a higher hourly rate- so I am all for it on that basis.

However, I am a little concerned that the 3 hour offer might make the sessions for non-funded children expensive.

Soooooo...... will the delay in SFF also mean a delay in the 3 hr entitlement or are the two not totally connected?

As ever there are more questions than answers - I shall keep my eyes and ears open! I think there may well be lots of disappointed providers who were looking forward to having an enhanced rate from September 2010. Just goes to show you can't please all the people all the time!

Maz

We were in the second round of pathfinder authorities so are a year down the 3hour and SFF route

I am really disappointed - we are in an area of deprivation and would have got a higher rate.

Just thought that I would let Sunnyday know that a lot of work has gone into preparing for this in Kent and it is going to happen in April 2010 as planned.

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what my LA is going to do - I imagine there will be some very unhappy people who have lived and breathed the EYSFF for so long and have had everything thrown into confusion.

As a provider I feel that delaying it for a year is just delaying the inevitable - but I have yet to read anything 'official' about what is going to happen, so I'll keep an open mind.

Maz

We were told at our meeting at the very beginning it wouldn't happen next year it would be the year after.
What they did promise is that from next April they will be telling us on our 'statement' that we get saying how much funding we are due they will also be advising how much we would've been getting under the new rules.

As a playgroup setting I was quite relieved about this, as we are going to be £2.60 per session worse off and at least it gives time to have a rather large fee increase for the 2 year olds.

Well that's me told!!!

Just to let Sunnyday know that I didn't intend to come over as bossy; I am on the working group for the SFF for Kent and after seeing this on Wednesday as breaking news , we met on Wednesday without knowing this had been happened, I later asked those at KCC working on this what was going to happen now and the reply was that "we are good to go in April as planned". but they could be overuled by someone I suppose.

our consultation closed today and borough are saying - if it looks good to go you can apply to 'whoever' to get it up and running for April

That's cool - thank you!

Well initially were were going to be down each session but after the consultation came back we were told we were going to be up as they have added on extra money for outstanding providers and extra if you rent property so now Im not so sure how I feel

I am totally disgusted its not going ahead. LEAs have had ample time to sort it. I have been going to meetings for over 2 years about it. As soon as the maintained sector see funding go for children they dont have they winge to politicians and hey presto its halted. The PVI sector has been shouting for years about how unfair it is and they go through the motions of listening and pull the plug. Roll on the election. Another shambles of Labour government. 68000 for a nursery head teacher is fair????? even if half empty???

You could also argue that many PVI settings will be much worse off with the EYSFF because the funding given by Government does not cover the hourly fees charged by settings, and removes the ability of settings to make any extra charges in respect of the free entitlement (registrations/deposits/charges for uniform/specialist teaching sessions etc).

I for one am hoping that if our Local Authority delays the introduction of the EYSFF for a year they will spend the time lobbying Government for a more equitable level of funding for all early years provision, no matter whether this is provided by the maintained or PVI sector. I'm not sure what difference a general election will make on the level of funding available, but I guess we won't have too long to wait to find out.

The grass is rarely as green on the other side of the fence as it would at first appear - almost everyone is challenged by the new funding arrangements to a certain extent. It is such a pity that a system set up to remove the perceived inequalities of funding early years education has had the effect of polarising opinion in one camp against the other.

Maz

I am sorry, But I too want to rant here....I was never going to be a fan of the SFF, because it's just another example of PVI's being to asked to run businesses with their hands tied behind their backs. That said, going back on what has already been agreed is ridiculous. There has been ample time for local authorities to sort this out, and those who have not must have had their heads in the sand. What I can't manage in business terms is unnecesary uncertainty, and this is a prime example.

When will anyone bother to look at the core issue here. You CAN NOT HAVE high quality provision without adequate funding, not in maintained settings, nor PVI's. For years PVI's have propped up the system, taken the losses, and just had to cope, but the minute the maintained sector is asked to fall in to line, all hell breaks loose.

Ok I know I have now stuck my neck out, and am waiting to be knocked down by the maintained sector......but frankly bring it on!!!! Try swapping for my job responsibilities and salary, and then tell me I don't have a point!!

Come on maintained sector......just give me 1 good reason why your setting should be funded at a higher rate than mine, and I will give you 20 reasons why not.

I couldn't agree more Sadie and EYFS, steam was coming out of my ears when I read the report saying the SFF would be delayed. What a joke, except it's not remotely funny.

If anyone is interested to read what Dawn Primarolo has said about the delay in implementing the EYSFF you can find her statement here.

It will be interesting to see whether the estimated third of all Local Authorities who were progressing well to the April 2010 implementation of the EYSFF will decide to plough ahead with their plans. Certainly the expansion of the pathfinder programme should enable good quality data about the successful (or otherwise) implementation of the EYSFF to be returned to Government which presumably could then feed into the preparations of the remaining LAs as they work towards the new April 2011 deadline.

At the very least the delay will enable LAs to consult more widely with providers and gather up to date information about what it really costs to provide the existing 12.5 entitlement.

I have mixed views about the delay in implementing the EYSFF - I am not certain where this leaves the commitment to offering 15 hours of free entitlement for example. If I have to provide 15 hours free at the point of delivery at my current rate of funding then that would be even more of a disaster to my setting than the threat posed by my LA's proposed hourly funding under the EYSFF.

Maz

Thanks for that link Maz. It is always best to go to the 'horse' to see what lies behind these things, and obviously not everyone is as ready as they should be, and for what appears to be a variety of reasons across all sectors. It seems to reassure those LA's who are ready that they can go ahead if they are accepted as pathfinders, and as you say that will be useful for providing data on which to base any changes.

Just checked our hants web site and it looks like hants have put in to be included in the pathfinder Sff for this april.

What do you think about that caroljayne?

We still have heard nothing from our LA about what they intend to do, and I still haven't worked out what will happen to the 15 hour entitlement for parents. Does anyone have any up to date information about that?

Maz

Hi Maz
What do I think
Not sure really. Think its going to happen anyway and we were ready for it to happen this April. Still not clear how much difference it will make to our Hourly rate. At my setting we have been part of Pathfinder for the 15hours anyway so hoping we will not loose too much. Have been told we will hear more first week back when we get the funding forms through. Will keep all posts on any news.
Caroljayne

As far as I can determine the SFF and the 15 hours are separate but obviously related things. Despite our LA being quite behind we are planning to go ahead in April as we have been funding on participation not places for the last few years. We also have an equitable single base rate which we have agreed to stick to. The only area of major debate has been the Quality Premium so we are planning to use the announcement by Dawn Primarola to delay introducing that until we can set up a level playing field for assessing quality across both PVI and maintained settings.

Quite. What concerns me is that if the 15 hour entitlement goes ahead (and I wonder if this can be delayed in any case) but the single funding formula is delayed by a year, Local Authorities will not be able to afford to pay PVI settings a higher rate of funding if they are still funding the maintained settings based on the number of places rather than participation.

If this is the case, then we'll be expected to offer the flexible entitlement on this year's rate plus an uplift to reflect inflation, which will leave my setting much more worse off financially than it would have been even under the SFF.

Oh joy!

Maz

Just noticed a tweet (is that what I mean? ) from Nursery World about the EYSFF. Here's the link to the Every Child Matters web page, but basically the Government is going to tell Local Authorities whether their application to join the expanded EYSFF pilots has been successful by 15th February.

So that potentially means it may be the end of February before we find out whether or not our LAs will be operating the EYSFF from September, always assuming we are told as soon as they are. If the blackest scenario is that a group needs to close because the business is no longer sustainable, this doesn't give a lot of time to give notice to parents and enable them to find alternative childcare.

I was cross enough when the detail of our EYSFF was announced, but now I'm really concerned whether settings will have enough time to regroup and reorganise themselves for the EYFSS when they thought it had gone away for a year.

Has anyone on here been told by their Local Authority what their plans are for April/September?

Maz

no, Maz, not been told yet. i agree it will be very short notice

We haven't been told either, well we were given draft plans but that was ages ago before all this came up. I think I may email our LA and ask if they have any further info. If we are not told until end Feb/beg March what is happening then I'm not sure how we are supposed to work out any form of budget?

We were asked as the PVI network were we in favour of going ahead with the SFF in April to which we have said yes as long as consultation continues. We find out in Feb whether it has been accepted. as I will be slightly better off I am ok with it but things have not been considered- see post below this topic.

Windsor and Maidenhead have decided not to apply for Pathfinder Status but say they will continue to work with providers to make the necessary changes to their business model to prepare for the implementation of the EYSFF for April next year.

Still no mention of what has happened to the 15 hour entitlement though - has anyone heard whether this is going ahead? Surely they can't expect us to deliver 15 hours free on less than the hourly amount proposed under the Single Funding Formula? I've emailed for clarification, so I'll see what happens next!

Incidentally our funding is going up by 2.1% to £3.63 an hour.

Maz

WOO! we already have the 15 hour entitlement - I hope they don't take it away, just when I've spent the last term convincing parents that It's there!!

Our authority has applied to be a pathfinder so will be waiting to see what happens.

As far as the 15 hours in concerned I believe that is going ahead irrespective of the funding method used!

If we don't go to the SFF then I am hoping for a bigger increase than the 5p (for the 2.5 hours - not per hour) than we go last year

Well I'm sure they wouldn't take it away if you're already delivering it Cait. Well not unless they want a riot on their hands, of course!

Maz

5p for the whole two and a half hours is an insult frankly - how on earth can they justify that? Having said that, of course if you're being paid £6.50 an hour then that would be another thing entirely!

Maz

As far as I am aware 15 hours has been shelved for another 12 months.
Our setting (school) has applied to continue with the 15 hours we shall just have to wait and see. It does seem daft to pilot 15hours this year go back to 12.5 for sept 10- july 11 then back to 15 hrs.

Vicky

haha - they'd better not! It's just for disadvantaged areas at the moment here, not a full roll-out

Ah yes, I remember. That'll probably stay in place then, I'd imagine - its the universal entitlement that is worrying me. Many groups at our consultation evening were saying they couldn't afford to offer the 15 hours free with funding set at a maximum of £4.20 an hour, so how they'd manage on £3.63 an hour is beyond me.

However I'm trying not to panic about that too much until I hear from the horse's mouth.

Maz

PS If there are any horses here who know the definitive answer and are able to share, I'm all agog!

I'm not in your LA Maz, but as far as I know we are going ahead with the 15 hours and we are going to be a pilot for the second stage of the SFF. I understand everyone's concerns on here and I do sympathise. The reasons I'm more chilled out is it turns out our LA has been funding on participation not places for some years and that we already have one base rate for all types of provision. My setting will lose out slightly by a more equal distribution of the deprivation rate but personally I can't argue against it as I believe the more deprived children should bring in a little extra if this will mean a little more is spent on resources (and I include staff in that) for them. We still have to thrash out the Quality Premium which is infinitely more contenious but we have also decided that a flexibility supplement is unnecessary as we have flexibility across the LA.

Sorry I can't comment on the national picture or your LA and I don't like to sound smug because we "seem" to have got it cracked. Hopefully if we are a second stage pilot authority then we will be ablet o provide some advice to other LAs and they will use this to make the SFF as equitable as I feel we have managed. Just got to get it in there too that PVI settings can have INSET days too - must remember that one at the next meeting!

Holly, I do like to hear of LAs who have cracked it as far as the SFF is concerned - and it sounds as if yours is well ahead of the game. Someone was obviously quite enlightened about the issues surrounding funding, if you've been funded based on participation for some time. Its also good to hear someone who is positive about the EYSFF, so if you do get a chance to be involved in advising other Authorities about how it works for your settings, that would be really beneficial, I'm sure.

This is such a difficult issue really, with so many facets to consider. If we assume (in the lack of any concrete information) that the 15 hour entitlement will go ahead in Authorities where they have been successful in working towards the EYSFF deadline but will not go ahead in those where the work is not yet completed, then parents are being disadvantaged merely because their LA has not been sufficiently prepared or have chosen not to apply for pathfinder status.

How on earth would an LA justify this position to those families who have been told for the last year or so that the 15 hour entitlement is coming in September? What will happen to those settings who have been providing the 15 hours because their setting is in an area of deprivation - will they continue to offer it or will it be removed?

What really bothers me is that at this late stage we are still in the dark about so many issues, and being left in this kind of information vacuum causes anxiety and worry where perhaps there is little or even no need.

As the song goes - there are more questions than answers!

Maz

Unfortunately while my LA seems ahead of the game we always (compared to fellow forum members) seem to be the last to know what our hourly rate will be! Guess it might be a case of swings and roundabouts but if anyone feels their LA is totally on the ball let me know - I'm happy to commute/move

On a more serious note it is very worrying that there could be an inequality across authorities especially where children might live close to LA borders. I also know of a number of practitioners who are pretty much burying their heads in the sand over all these issues and banking on a change of government who make wholesale changes in funding arrangements. If they turn out to be right that is another major worry. What happened to us being like the description on the direct.gov website is what I want to know?!

Neigh, Neigh, Neigh no idea what's going on!

well, looks like gloucestershire will be rolling out the SFF from April. had the letter on Friday telling us they have applied for pathfinder status (which i assume they will get).

we will be told in march what the base rate will be, our impact assesment (if we gain or loose based on the 'old' funding formula), and explanation of the calculations and an indicative annual budget !

so i am holding judgement until then..........

Ours is rolling out SFF from April (assuming they get permission) Any setting that is already doing 15 hours getting the funding from April & those not doing it from September. There are some settings in areas of deprivation already getting the 15 hours funding.