hi speaking to a friend of mine and she mentioned from next year to work in a playgroup/nursery you have to have level 3 qualification. if you got level 2 you can still work in settings but cannot be counted in ratios. have anyone heard of this.



also with level 2 qualification can you be supervisor/deptuy/manager

thanks

Hmm, I think the level 3 in ratios thing hasn't come into force yet - someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that you can't be supervisor/deputy/manager with level 2

CWDC site would be the best place to look

no cant be a deputy/super at level 2

but can be counted as a qualified member of staff if the level 2 is full and valid. You can check on the database here.

Maz

I understand the confusion. In the initial 10 year strategy papers it was muted, but seems now to have been mothballed. In a letter from Ed Balls earlier this year there was again talk of considering to require all staff to be qualified, but no details were given and the word used was MIGHT, not WILL

I've been confused about this for a while now but haven't got to the point of trying to wok it all out. I'm working as a TA in a school nursery at the moment - used to teach, which I loved, but dropped out when had my own two and being a TA suits me at the mo. (Never been very ambitious!) Have got a BEd Hons in Primary Education but don't know where that leaves me in terms of being appropriately qualified for job I do now, or teacing in FS if I ever get lucky and manage to make the jump back. Can anyone shed any light? I've never come across anyone else in my position - usually I just get bemused looks if I have to tell anyone but I'm happy so I don't care what they think anyway! Would just be nice to know if I am a freak and what I might have to do to get back up to speed if necessary?!

Sorry - have just re-read that and didn't mean to imply that being a TA does not require ambition ! - I know how hard we work for starters! Just meant that as far as teaching went was never motivated to move beyond being a classroom teacher which I loved - hope have not offended anyone!

thanks for all replies. why i asked this because i'm level 3 qualified and the girl who is deputy is level 2 and getting paid more than i do (i do alot more than she does), but she has been there from day one (3 years) me only 16 months

Are you the manager/leader, or at a post lower than the deputy?

Deputy's do need to be level three, but depending on circumstances ofsted will allow as long as firm/fixted action plans etc are in place to get the person to L3 asap. This would usually be in a setting where there is no other option though- for example the setting having to close. It would also mean the L2 would be undertaking her L3 immediately and not just 'yes, I'll do it soon' senario!!

xxxxx

With regard to the queries about all staff needing to be level 3 by 2015, I was at a conference yesterday where Pauline Jones from CWDC spoke. I got from her speech that although there is no legal imperative as yet for this target to be met, CWDC are working towards it in anticipation of it becoming a requirement.

not manager/leader.

in our setting (playgroup) we have manager (level 4) deputy (level 2) myself (level 3).

deputy is not pursuing any other training/qualification. when manager off i.e training days deputy left in charge, deputy mum covers (not qualified).
does that seem fair to you.

Not only does it not seem fair, it also seems to be wrong under the terms of the EYFS which states that a deputy should be level 3 qualified unless working towards level 3 and in extreme circumstances. Given these rules it seems that you should be the deputy as you have the level 3 and the current deputy should be the other member of staff. With regard to the deputy's mum helping to provide cover, we sometimes ask non-qualified ex parents to cover when we have staff absence as they know the setting well, and we also have staff who are currently unqualified, although you need to be careful that your ratio of qualified to unqualified staff is correct.

so basically if you are not qualified you cannot be counted in ratios/supervision

Currently you can be counted in the ratios but I think there must be a minimum or 50% staff with level 2 or above after the manager. So in the case you mention if it is just you, the manager and the level 2 in, you are fine. If the manager was off, the person in charge for that session should be level 3 qualified and the level 2 and an unqualified person would make a 50/50 split on the rest of the staff with regards to un/qualified. Therefore you would be withing the requirements of the EYFS. But if the person in charge for the session were only level 2 or you had more than 50% of the staff unqualified you would not.

Does that make more sense? If anyone thinks I have interpreted it wrong let me know cos I will have Ofsted asking me this soon so I want to make sure I understand it too!

sorry to be thick!

if you had 8 children aged 3 and 7 children aged 2 would there be enough staff staff to cover ratio's e.g 1 level 2(deputy)
1 level 3
1 unqualified.

You're not thick! I sometimes think Ofsted are deliberately vague and confusing for reasons of their own. From your description, yes I can't see a problem with the ratios. The only problem comes from the deputy being level 2 if there is no manager on duty on the premises.

well definately NO manager, just little old me!

In the EYFS it states there must be a named deputy who can take charge in the manager's absence. See http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/83961 and also http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/83909

Although it does not specifically state the deputy must have level 3 anywhere I can find, the implication is there and members of this forum have plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this. Ultimately you might not get an answer unless it is raised with Ofsted specifically about your setting or it is raised by them in an inspection. I'm not sure I have helped at all really there.

hi just looked on http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/83909 it clearly state that
In registered settings other than childminding settings, all supervisors and managers must hold a full and relevant level 3 qualification (as defined by the Children's Workforce Development Council (CWDC))

certainley not in my setting

So your dilemma is do you mention it or wait for it to be brought up by an inspector. Could you bring it to the attention of the manager do you think?

not sure i want to mention it, but peeved that she is on more money than i am and i do a lot more than her.
if i do mention it she wil have some excuse why she is deputy, use big words and totally confuse me, but i now know that i am right(thanks to all you lovely people)

on thursday we have quality assurance coming in they might pick up on it has it is displayed in parent handbooks.

Are you a committe run setting or privately owned?
The matter does need to be brought up, and you're in a very difficult postion. as you say perhaps it will be picked up at the QA meeting.........with a little 'nudge' in that direction from you!

xxx

hi where run by the local council/flying start

spoke to manager today and mentioned that you cannot be level 2 and deputy, she told me that she spoke to care standards in wales and they said yes she can

does anyone have more info about this.

thanks

From what I understand....

level 2 is not a supervisory qualification so therefore if the deputy is acting as the manager they need to hold a level 3 or above.



ppp

just had a look on the care standards website cannot find anything, totally gobbleygook to me!

Are you in Wales Alison?

I'm going to merge this with your existing thread so that it makes more sense.

yes in wales

I am really surprised by this I am the Playleader and am a Level 4 doing my Early Years Foundation Degree my deputy is a level 3. I would NEVER EVER allow anyone to be a deputy under a 3 I am shocked!!

I also think this is out of order when people like me are working so so hard to gain these levels.

just found this from care standards wales website

From 1 April 2008, the registered person ensures that the person in
charge possesses at least a level 3 qualification within ACCAC’s National
Qualifications Framework for Early Years Education, Childcare and Playwork
which is appropriate to the post. In the period until 1 April 2008, the registered
person will set out an action plan detailing how they intend to meet this
criterion and in what timescale.


so does this mean when manager off and level 2 (deputy) is in charge of setting she cannot be in charge,

thanks

Just to let you know what we were told by OFSTED.
They do not recognise the position of deputy, only leader (we even quoted the welfare doc to them about there being a named deputy. They said it was an internal decision about even having a deputy). However, if the leader is off then someone must step up to that position and has to be level 3 qualified (not necessarily a deputy as they dont recognise it ). They were concerned about the fact that there had to be 50% qualified.
In my situation at my old setting, the leader was level 3, deputy was agency cover (could be different lady every day), me as assistant (studying level 3) so what happened when leader was off sick.......had to get in another agency woman but there was no way they were leaders for the day! It was down to me as who knows the systems, parents, children etc etc...and before you ask yes it was stressful (but an experience). Didnt get paid as deputy or leader tho! So I presume the agency ladies were "leaders in name only" really! However, it was an unforseen circumstance, we would have had to close at short notice and once a deputy was hired this would not occur again.

Well three members of staff in my setting, manager(level4) deputy(level 2) myself (level 3). When manager off for training days deputy (level 2) is in charge/ runs setting. Now my argument is now if level 2 cannot be left in charge of setting then they should ask me being level 3 if I mind running setting. Got a feeling they wont ask, just do it. I know this sounds like I’m jealous of deputy but I am not, just want to know where I stand legally if something went wrong.