Does anyone else think that parents are toilet training their children later and later. I know we shouldn't compare but my own children were all toilet trained by 2yrs - it seems 3plus is more the norm now - do you agree?
I don't want to rush children who aren't ready into being trained but there does need to be some lead from the adult doesn't there?
How do others support children with potty training in settings when parents haven't already made a start?

Some of the children in my setting ask to sit on the potty even though they are still in nappies. We let them sit on the potty and then tell parent what happened. I think when younger children see older children using the toilet they are more interested to try it themselves. If the child shows no sign of wanting to sit on the toilet/potty then I leave it up to parent when to start potty training. I have quite a lot of 2 year olds at school and most are already potty trained(quite lucky, may not be so lucky next time). mrsW

I think nappies are just too comfortable now and some parents are just too lazy or 'busy'. also, gone are the days when you had to be out of nappies before you could start pre-school!

When my own children were in nappies - it was terry towelling, safety pins, dreadful rubber pants - couldn't wait to be rid of them!!!

sunnyday

You and me both Sunnyday!

We have a little boy at Preschool who was with us all day every day from May last year and by July we had him dry all day and asking for a 'wee' when he needed one. He came back in September, still in nappies and we were amazed! But saddened too as he wasn't asking any more for the toilet and seemed to have totally lost interest. He still has a baby bottle - with tea in it which he arrives with in the morning. He only comes 3 days this year as mum's job changed. Last week he arrived in pants and mum seemed thrilled. He stayed dry all day the three days (Tue Wed & Thur) but today arrived in nappies again! He said he 'peed hisself' so obviously Mum decided he's not ready! Goodness!

We have a little girl coming up to three - she told me last week 'I'm always going to wear a nappy - because I like them!'


xxx

At least with the old terries there was an incentive to use the potty as they must have been uncomfortable when wet!

we also have children wearing nappies aged over three years and even one who will be going onto school in september - we have worked with the family and other services and at last she is now in pants!!!
i think its all to easy for lots of parent sto carry on with nappies or (my bug bear) pull ups!

I couldn't agree more!

Funnily enough, we were going down our register today looking at how many children we have in nappies as we need to buy new nappy baskets. We were shocked at some of the ages of the children we have still in nappies!

The thing is, most of the children will sit on the potty/toilet when we change their nappies at nursery and often do a wee but their parent's say "he's not ready" IF his nappies are dry then he does a big wee on the loo then I'm sure he'd be fine in pants really!

We had a little girl in pants today for the first day, she's 2yr 8months. When mum came, we said "She's done brilliantly, she's been asking to go and everything, really really good! Just 2 accidents when we didn't quite make it in time" Mum said "Oh...2 accidents, I really don't know what we're going to do- I really don't think this is going to happen you know, I can't cope with it, all the washing and looking after the baby as well. I think she might need to go back in nappies for a while"

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! Honestly, 2 accidents- we were really proud of her for that!

Sorry, rant over, this is just very topical for us at the moment!

Most of our two year olds start with nappies but usually by 2.5yrs we are encouraging 'mum' to start potty training if
they haven't already taken the lead. We ask if they want to bring their 'own' potty to preschool which usually works quite well and make sure they pack plenty of spare clothes in a bag. Having said this, all of our two year olds out of nappies went straight onto the toilet (maybe something to do with the fact I didn't put the potty out for a few weeks)

Just been through this with the little boy I nanny for, who is 3 this month. He was very resistant initially as he doesn't like change no matter what it concerns. For the first few days it was all quite traumatic and would have been very easy to give it up as a bad job, but equally we probably would have met with the same resistance next time round! I got there on the second morning and mum said 'I haven't had time to do the battle with him over pants so he's still in his nappy at the moment.' Went upstairs with the expectation that he WOULD be wearing the pants, and gave him the choice between two pairs - no battle involved!
Anyway about 3 weeks on and he is reliably dry all day and will now ask to go - we are getting there with 'poos' and all the trauma is now long forgotten.

Thanks for all the replies - thought maybe I was being a bit harsh but seems we're all in agreement that unless there is good cause most 3yr old should be out of nappies.
The child I'm thinking of specifically is 3 in 2 weeks. I raised potty training at our last review and asked if mum was happy with me introducing the idea of the potty - stories, having it out, trying sitting on it to see "if anythings coming"at nappy change time etc she agreed but felt he wasn't really ready "we'll do it over the summer". He's more than capable of being dry - goes off quietly to do his poo and then waits for me to change him happily so I've started suggesting that he tries to do a poo on the potty now and not in his nappy but he'll probably just think I'm being mean unless it's supportd at home too

Wouldn't this job be so much simpler without the parents! Does anyone else think this sometimes????/

HAHAAHAAAHA

This is an interesting topic, but I guess we have to look at each child as an individual and that they are all going to get out of nappies eventually. My own nephew who is at my nursery was 3 last September and his mum only recently started toilet training him, but he has been fantastic he has gone from nappies to using the loo and we have had no accidents. It has shown to me that when a child's nervous system is developed enough that is the right time to get rid of the nappies.

What a topical debate!

My youngest son was 2 in Dec and I am trying to get him out of nappies, as my other 2 were out of them before they were 2. In his defence he was premature so I left him a little longer till he should have been born ( I am very generous this time round!!!).

He attends nursery 4 days per week where some of the staff have been fantastic he is only having 2 accidents on average but there is one member who just keeps banging on about him not being ready, yet a little one almost 3 has a dozen accidents per day!

Am I doing right or wrong I am questioning myself now???

Confused ( but it doesnt take much lol)
Vicky

i think that as long as the child is showing signs that they are ready,Ie long periods of dry napppy and have the language to ask for the toilet it doesn't matter if the child is 18months or older. but if the child is not ready they you will feel relly down hearted and not want to try if they are having lots of accidents. It does help if you have the parents on side and they are doing the pottying at home when they are not in the setting otherwise you are fighting a losing battle.

Cait - give me a room full of under 5's anyday - far less hassle

free potty training charts

a site which claims to be 'for all your potty training needs'

Inge

thanks Inge - might be a useful link for the newsletter

Having a 'play' potty in the room to sit on, not use as a loo can help as some time or another a child will find how enjoyable excretion is in a squatting position on it (albeit it in their nappy)! Also, when they are ready, pre-verbal even, they can point to the potty and indicate a need to 'go' to which adult response can be made as appropriate.

Oh dear. Seems as if the parent's place is generally in the wrong!

but this can also have consequences.... one of our children pooed in the play potty which was doll sized! while playing in the home corner... so fast no one could stop it! so if doing this be very very aware of the children...

Inge

lol superb role play hey Inge? Did the child have to take off a nappy to do so? Was the child communicating a desire to use a potty and subsequently was enabled to do so in the appropriate place?

If so I'm surprised they didn't ask for the gloves and apron too!

Am I one of the bad parents??? I started pottey training with my daughter when she was about 15 months and I remember it being pretty hideous and stressful! I was at home with my 3 month old at the time and the perod of not knowing whether or not she was going to wee on the floor today, once, twice or three times, seemed to last forever!! (I could be remembering it with sludge tinted glasses!
now my son is 2 and a half and I am teaching reception full time and my mum looks after him in the mornings and my husband in the afternoons. I feel it's a lot to put on my mum and husband, so planned to leave it till the 6 weeks summer holiday when I'm at home full time - he won't be 3 till October and wont start nursery till he's 3.
(I think some of this stems from guilt that I'm having to work at all, let alone full time, so want to do the 'big' parenting jobs myself.... )
Do you think I'm leaving it much too late? I kind of figured that if I left it that late and I was consistently there it wouldn't take too long??
Am I a very bad mummy???

I think you know your son best of all and my gut feeling is that you're probably right: if you leave it until you think he's really ready it should be less traumatic than if you were to do it too early.

Of course you're not a bad mummy - you're just doing what you think is right for your son. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for doing your best!

Maz

Thanks Maz - it's always goodto have someone tell you you're not doing completely the wrong thing.

Oh and oops - I meant 27 months rather than 15 months!! Just a year out, but hey!

I do not think you are a bad mummy in the slightest for making that decision. My only worry when leaving it until children are more aware is that for SOME children (and you know your child best), especially maybe those in daycare - not much privacy - they do not want to use a potty or toilet in front of others, they have become more aware of their bodies and see pooing and weeing slightly differently than a 3yr old.
Your post reminded me how important it is to remember that as parents we all do things differently and most of us are finding our feet and feeling our way along. I think I was just feeling a bit fed up of some of the issues that arise from working with parents

Ok I agree parents are leaving children later before potty training but I dont think thats a bad thing, in general the older child grasps the concept better and has few accidents once they are out of nappies,

I left both my children, (who both wore terry nappies so I know it wasnt a comfort thing) one was 3 the other was 2 1/2 and once they started to use the toilet within days the nappies where off day and night and neither had any accidents I advocate not rushing potty training I feel that early potty training is more luck than readiness I find it frustrating when a parent brings a child in and says they are potty trained can I take the child to the loo in 10 minutes cause that when they are next due to go then if a member of staff is not available to do that or the child refuses to go because they are engrossed in their play ithen ts accident after accident because we have missed the time slot and the child gets upset at having acciednts

Having said everything above, my little boy decided in the last 3 days of the Easter holiday that he was desperate (excuse the pun!) to use the toilet and not have nappies. He kept taking himself off to the toilet, getting the baby seat out, setting up the toilet, taking off his nappy and trousers and going to the toilet all by himself!

So I thought I couldn't ignore it, much as I wanted to take the pressure off my mum and husband by leaving it to the summer holidays, and it would appear (don't want to count my chickens....etc) that he's practically potty-trained himself!

Fantastic!!

My understanding has always been that children are developmentally ready sometime between 2 and 3 years old. They do generally show a willingness to do it, but if that window of opportunity is missed then it becomes much more difficult later on. So you did the right thing by not pushing for it before, but going with the flow (so to speak ) when he indicated he was ready. You see, you are a good mum.

Well done you - just goes to show that everything usually works out in the end and by waiting until he was ready it became much less of a stress for him and you.

I'll bet you're so relieved!

Maz

Give it a few months and he could pop round and potty train my little girl, being as he is so good at it!!!!

Groaning smilie alert!!

Well I was getting desperate, and now I'm just bursting with excitement!

hehehehe

I love this forum so much! I have toilet training conversations with my TA almost daily it seemsabout one child or another and so many of out comments you have all said. I currently am teaching in America in what is basically a special needs preschool class with 3-5 year olds (although the majority would not be in special ed in the UK, but in mainstream with support) . The majority of 3's are not yet toilet trained and in some cases thats because they are not ready, however in others its most definitly their parents who have the issues! Its so lovely to read a discussion hearing others say similar things - I have no children of my own and neither does my TA and neither of us have taught in this kind of class before so we have spent the wholde year muddling through never quite sure if we are doing it all "right"!
Thank you!

We also find that parents don't help with the clothes they put the children in.

We have one little boy who wears jeans all the time but as he is quite skinny they don't fit well so his mum adds a huge big leather belt with a buckle which he can't possibly undo. We have suggested he wears joggers but I don't think they quite suit her image so he only wears them for Forest School days when they're covered by his waterproofs!

Parents ..... don't you just love 'em?

Thanks for all your replies to this topic.
I agree Calicojo - parents don't always choose clothes that are manageable for children, I could start off a whole new topic with this one - why is at as practitioners we always encourage children to do what they can for themselves, support them with new skills and do the things they cant do for them and parents - myself included, insist on doing everything for them!?!
I mostly meet my children at the school and bring them home where even the youngest children help with taking their own shoes off and putting them under the peg. One three year old can take off his shoes and put them on and hang his own coat up yet when parents bring him it is all done for him.
Anyway potty training is going well and parents have taken my suggestions on board. I still feel that leaving it beyond three when children have been ready for awhile creates further difficulties as they start to feel pooing and weeing is a private thing whereas a 2yr old has no concept of this yet making potty training in a daycare setting more straightforward.
Your replies have encouraged me to think about this issue from parents point of view too though - so thankyou, glad you found it useful too ajjmouse

Reading this thread for my own personal interest (although believe or not we do hear of some children who wear nappies at night in reception). My daughter was about 2 years and 5 months when she showed some interest and telling me she had a wee and a poo in her nappy so we decided to go with it and we were doing well a few accidents a day but on the whole was pleased (as it was winter months we did have a lot of washing but could cope with that) when she went to nursery after the christmas hols she had a couple of accidents and one the members of staff told me she wasn't ready to be potty trained and she kept wetting herself (i had put a bag of 2/3 change of clothes for her and she wore clothes that she could pull and down i didn't put her in tights and dresses) so it made me upset. She ended going back into nappies. We stated again about the march time (she would have been 3 end of June) and this time she was dry both day and night and has been ever since. She still does have accidents leaves it to last minute and she is 5 so not sure if i did it too early i don't feel like i pushed her she told me when she is ready.

I have a son now who is 22 months and at the moment he doesn't show any interest in the toilet (over than putting his toys into it!!) he doesn't tell me if his got dirty bottom so thinking should i start in the summer or leave it. Are boys easier than girls to train???

In my personal experience with 2 sons and 1 daughter absolutely not! My boys were ready later and had many more accidents and took longer to be 'reliable' than my daughter.

I attended a conference a few years ago and went to the most fabulous, practical, down to earth workshop I have ever attended - the topic was toilet training. The advice given was as follows:

1. The age that children are trained has definitely been delayed by at least a year since the general use of disposables. It is thought that this is because modern nappies are so effective at keeping the child dry that they do not recognise they are wet/dirty. The answer is 'simples' (to quote the advert). Still use disposables but put a layer of kitchen paper inside which will of course stay wet!

2. Then wait until the child shows signs of what is happening.

3. Spend a week monitoring how often the bladder empties. Just look at the nappy and write down the time and if it is dirty/wet. You can them see the pattern. When you take the child out of nappies you will then know how often to take them to the loo - if it empties once an hour, take them after 50 minutes! This way they are more likely to have success and you can praise and therefore encourage them.

4. Finally give them a big drink of water 15 minutes before taking them!

It generally seems to work. Wish I had known 18 years ago when my son was that age!
Gruffalo2

My six year old leaves it til I realise why she is jiggling about and send her.

I can cope with that but I do wonder why my twelve year old is still doing the same thing!!

When, oh when do they stop holding on and just go? Or is it just that my kids are strange?

I certainly didn't push mine. I waited til they were asking to use the potty and neither had more than a handful of accidents.