Hi,i'm not sure if everyone already knows this but for the ones that don't i just wanted to share an idea.
I had planned to make bird feeders this week, so at the weekend went to a local market where there was a stall selling nuts and seeds.
I tried the old " i work in a nursery can i have them cheap" routine,but instead he told me how to make the bird feeders he was selling.
Seeds/nuts mixed with pva glue.I know i couldnt believe it either.He adds honey but said that was optional..
So Monday morning i told this story to my 3 year olds and we all made a bird feeder,lot less messy than lard.
I suppose the lard is better for the birds than glue,lol,but it's the nuts they are after anyway.
My slant on all this is that even if the feeders dont work out at least the children have learnt about feeding birds,but actually the feeders look really good,put them in yoghurt pots to dry ,then just empty them out.
Sorry to bore you if you've already heard this idea but iv'e worked with children for 21 years and iv'e never heard of it before.
Gill xx

Wow!......not heard of this before. We usually use lard.......can't stand the smell so may give the glue a try.

Have the birds in your area been using them yet!!!

H ha,time will tell,putting them out in the morning,they haven't set really hard as you would imagine so hopefully the poor little things will be able to break off a peanut or 2,will let you no

glue???is that safe? - sorry but dosnt sound good to me

I have images of birds stuck to the food....
Sorry but that sounds like a good way to poison the poor little things.

i agree Lorna - please stick to lard peeps not glue x

Gill think man in market needs reporting!

LOL, Yes i see what you mean he did look a bit dodgy,ha ha..
He also assured me that the reason they use pva glue in schools is that if it is ever digeseted it wont harm the children.Obviously only very small anounts

DId he think the lard would harm them then?

No,he had half coconuts filled with lard and seed,i think it was just easier to make and stay in shape,he had used a bell mould.
The seed still crumbles ,think im making this sound worse than it is.
Gill

Do you know you had me worried i thought we'd have no birds left in Lincolnshire,
so i googled it
and it appears in several books written by bird experts,and i quote"the birds seems to prefer the feeders made with pva to the ones made without.

No, I think the amount of PVA a bird would ingest would be too large. It would damage their digestive systems to say nothing ofthe chemicals in the polyvinyl leeching into their systems with the ongoing threat of damaging eggs and future generations. Although not strictly toxic in small amounts for a child, birds systems are a lot smaller.

i'm sure the birds are only after the seed but it does make you a bit worried that in trying to interest the children in all outdoors it may be a shame if they get confused with the whole food/ glue issue!!! we made bird feeders by using a needle and fairly thick thread to join together monkey nuts in their shells!! we have no known nut allergies in the children or their families so were able to do this! the children seemed to really enjoy this and all took a string full home! i kept saying while making them "oh i can't wait till we hang some of these on our bird table then looked out of the window and realised someone had stolen it can you understand how some people could do that?, i am going to buy another one tomorrow and get my husband to drill some holes in it and padlock it to a tree, If anyone is looking out for a bird table they are £25 in tesco's at the mo!

How infuriating! I hope they are feeding the birds with it, not just using it for firewood!

we use raisons and fir cones to make bird feeders. The children push the raisons into the gaps in the fir cone and hang them on the trees in the garden. The birds really love them and they are great for the children's developing fine manipulative skills. mrsW

My made these using crisp and dry solid vegetable oil, yes it was messy and sticky but it doesn't smell as much as lard. I don't think I'd want to use pva glue, just in case.
Karrie

Yu can use crunchy peanut butter too

i hadn't thought of what they had done with it!! i was imagining someone taking it for a christmas present!!! just told hubby about the glue/seed feeders he said he hopes they dont eat the glue as it would be hard to get the poo off the windows!! he is only joking

what a cheek!!!!

That's a good one! HAHAHAHAHA

My own thoughts are that PVA can't be good for the birds. But in any case, the whole point of using lard is to provide the birds with fat to help them through the winter!

To be of benefit to the birds it has to be animal fat ie lard. Vegetable fats doesn't lay down the body fat they need to keep warm. Something to do with the ratio of vegetable fat they would have to eat to make the same conversion into body fat.

Use up old cereals that have gone stale, porriage oats or a pet food shop for a big bag of wild bird seed. At home we use muffin cases. 3/4 fill each paper case with scraps/bird seed and pour on over melted fat. I put one 'muffin' out a day on the patio step and watch the visitors.

Absolutely biccy! Somehow missed this - I think I was so surprised about the PVA!! Good advice to be found here. I've also submitted a question about the PVA to their 'Ask an Expert' - if I get a reply I'll let you know!!

That was quick - I've got a reply!



So there we have it - PVA is definitely not to be used as a substitute for lard or suet.

I never realised that, we used vegetable oil as one the the girls was concerned about the vegetarian children (of which we have many) using lard.
Karrie

You would need to speak to the parents to ask their opinion on this. However, animals have different needs to humans and as a vegetarian myself I would not try to 'inflict' my beliefs on my own pets, nor would it bother me to give birds lard or suet if it helps them to survive.

You can get vegetable trex or whatever it's called, That's what I use in my bird feedy things.

RSPB must have been inundated i also asked them with the same response Carol
Please dont use PVA

Give the birds what they really need - a good layer of fat to see them through the cold times.

I don't know that that's good enough though Cait as it will not be as high in saturated fats as lard or proper suet.

You were as concerned for the poor birds as me then!

I just soften it in a bowl and add loads of stuff - porage oats and chopped nuts and chopped raisins and breadcrumbs and then scrape it into bun tins, stuff it in the freezer and put one or two out a day. I know what you mean about the saturated fats, and it's better with proper lard or good old beef dripping. But it's what I had in the house, and better than nothing!

well the birds can't speak for themselves...their becks are stuck together

not funny Biccy

I have heard of the glue idea but never used it.

Personally I would never use lard or suet with the children either, not just because I am vegetarian and would never handle the stuff myself, but also because of children being veggie or Moslem, Jewish etc who may not want animal products that they would not eat being handled. I would always stick to vegetable suet, it is suitable for birds even if considered not quite as good as the animal fats might be.