HI

Our local college, in conjunction with children and families is offering the level three cerificate in EYFS. it looks really exciting. Myself and my senior nursery officer are doing it. just wondered if anyone else was doing it. we start college end of january or early feb (4 hours a week on a tuesday night)... feeling strangely excited LOL

Dawn

Sounds interesting not heard of this course at all how long does it last for?

Hi,

it lasts for three terms, so pretty much a college year.

Dawn

I had an email from the TDA a while ago http://www.tda.gov.uk/about/newsletter/oct.../knowledge.aspx
http://www.cwdcouncil.org.uk/pdf/EYFS/EYFS_leaflet_Aug07.pdf

new one on me too

I have heard of it but I am trying to find a local college which is offering it

I think there is a list on the CWDC site

Would this be equivalent to nvq level 3????

I saw it advertised in one of the early years magazines and found out more about it on the Cache site - I'm hoping to persuade our Children's Centre to fund all our level 3s to do it if possible, I think it'll be of more use than the local training. I believe it's equivalent to one module/unit of a level 3 award but I may be wrong!

Hi I thought you had to have a level 3 qualification to do the course but may be wrong

Please don't all throw bricks at me, but I can't see how you could possibly need three terms, or a qualification, to look at the EYFS!

It all seems to be just about how we work presently, with some tweaking of documentation, to take account of heading changes.

Sue, slinking quietly away.........

It's definitely a Level 3 certificate, I'm not sure whether you have to have a Level 3 qualification already in order to do it. I spoke to a very helpful person at Cache today, who then emailed me the candidate handbook for the course - it contains all the information you'll need.

Hopefully I've attached it??

I know exactly what you mean Sue - I'm looking at it as a possible professional development opportunity for some of the staff - both nursery and outreach - in our Centre if they facny doing a bit of formal study again.

OK, thanks for that Wolfie - it looks to me more like a bit of a name change for the old Level 3 that was replaced by the new one....!! Rather than a course specifically for the EYFS itself? I'll have to spend more time looking through it!

Sue

Thanks for that Wolfie - looks like a really comprehensive course. Wonder if it is intended to replace the DPP? I would really like to teach/assess this course - and have only had a quick flick through!

Peggy - I'd be interested to see whether its something you'd like to get involved with. Sounds right up your alley!

Sue - I think this is much more than just about the EYFS. I haven't had time to have a good look at it but it goes into some depth about the underpinning knowledge and principles of early education and obviously by the end of the course the candidate would have a really in depth knowledge of the EYFS too!

What I really like about it is that there is a mixed model of assessment - reflective task (a written essay) assessor observation of practice, a walk and talk (which I gather is where the candidate literally walks around the setting and gives a verbal 'presentation' about a given topic or course criteria). This is much better than the old assignment writing assessment - we all know people who can write a good assignment but whose practice leaves much to be desired (or who can't talk to parents or has little empathy with children, etc etc).

This method of assessing candidate's competencies offers more scope to see the whole picture and not just what their academic skills are...

Maz

Had a quick scan and noticed this on page ix of the contents :-

It is saying that it is not a full Level 3 qualification.

Progression from this qualification
This is not a full Level 3 qualification; however, it will update the existing knowledge and
experience held by practitioners who already have a recognised Level 3 qualification. It may
also be a valuable route of professional development for practitioners at different levels. For
example, practitioners with a Level 2 qualification may wish to take the CACHE Level 3
Certificate in Early Years Foundation Stage Practice to enhance their professional practice
before moving on to a full Level 3 qualification.

Sue

Maz. you really do know me don't you , yes this certainly took my interest, but I've had to put it to my favourites folder to look at later because although I've closed the preschool in December I'm still doing preschool work, attended a TAC meeting today, have a SENCO meeting tomorrow plus the dreaded end of year accounts blah, blah, blah, HOWEVER, when the preschool work is completely finished I think the course sounds like an inevitable evolvement for training providers to offer in place of current FSC focused level 3's. Thanks for your critique of the content, really does sound good. I haven't read the PDF yet but agree with Sue that if already a level 3 person then adaption to EYFS should be quite straight forward without the need to do this level of study, but for maybe level 2 people wanting to progress to level 3 then this course sounds ideal.

Although I've finished my preschool I still want to 'keep up to date' with the EYFS which will be difficult as I will not be doing it 'in practice' so I shall certainly look at this alongside te actual EYFS documents and maybe, you never know, seek to find out if I can tutor this course in the future.

Feeling quite liberated and excited about the EYFS change now, maybe because I haven't got the pressure to actually impliment it alongside all the other pressures of running a business, so for me, change is actually becoming a 'breath of fresh air' rather than a challenge.

Peggy

You voiced my thoughts Sue when I first saw this thread. I've just read parts of the attachment and still think that, while it can be valuable to revisit some areas, (afterall, I did some of the DPP twice) I do think that it might be like telling your granny how to suck eggs in some ways.
I would find it personnaly useful if tutoring became a regular thing because the course I'm down for has to be linked to the EYFS, but as I dont have a regular setting I doubt it would happen.
But after saying all that, its still down to personal choice and I can see how it would offer a lot to people who are new to early years.
So there's me on the fence basically

I was discussing this with my colleague (elle) today and we both agreed it was a nother 'jumping through hoops' thing.

I have considered doing it though, (all the LEA courses are full- what a surprise) its not a full level 3 and you must have a level 3 qualification first before doing it.

edited to say- just re read this you don't have to have level 3 anyway you can work up to it from level 2

aha, mine and sss65 posts done simultaniously.

Peggy

ooops I hadn't read jester comment, need a level 3 first before doing it.......I wonder why a level 2 with experience following qualification couldn't do it?

Peggy

I agree with you Maz its a good way to assess students- as you say sooo many people can do the academic side of it but struggle in the realism of the profession.

The certificate is suitable for EY practitioners who will be implimenting the EYFS. It is appropriate for those who already have a recognised level 3 qualification who may wish to update their skills. Other practitioners at different levels may also find the certificate is suitable for them but must recognise this is not a full level 3 qualification.

There are no formal entry requirements but some assessments will require the candidate to be working with children in a regulated setting.

The above was from the link Marion posted yesterday.

Sorry I did edit my post I got this sightly wrong when I read the info on the course.

They've missed a trick here though: it would be a powerful qualification if it were to combine the EYFS with the DPP. I'm not sure that I would be tempted to do it after a DPP, and nor would I be interested if I was a level 2 hoping to do a level 3. I'm going to have a good long read and see what I think - have already sent a text to my chum who works for my local college to see if they're going to offer it...

Perhaps I'll take the course myself when my degree is over - it would be a little light relief (and just think of the class discussions we could have :))

Maz

That was what I meant in my second comment, Happymaz! Sorry, very long few weeks, and no let up in sight (YES, all over christmas and new year, with extra hours)

Sue

Missed that post Sue! Must have been carried away by the excitement of it all!

Maz

Are you mad? hell aren't you doing enough with doing a degree?!

It would very good if it were combined with a DPP, I can't see many level 2s wanting to do that only to have to do the level 3 anyway to make it up to a full level 3

commenting without any knowledge of the content, but maybe a level 2 person could do it and then get APL with experience to go straight on to the foundation degree?
I went from a PPA introductory course, some experience straight into the ADCE (which at the time taken was at level 4)

You never know eh?

I think that all level 3 courses (NVQ / DPP etc) should now have redesigned their content to take into acount the EYFS, whether that is happening, I don't know.

Peggy

Hi

I have read the replies with interest.

i have a degree in childhood studies and it is only 2 and a bit years old, but i have still been told this course would be beneficial for me (maybe i am being mis-informed?). i am personally hoping to take away from it strategies for implementing EYFS correctly, (or at least as best as we can!). i am hoping to be able to then give the staff at nursery some in house training on it.

i am still slightly unsure if it is the best thing for me to do, but then again i did decide in january that i would do some studying this year I have been told that i may be able to credit some of my degree work and EYPS work towards some of the units so i may have less work than other candidates to do, i also think that the colleges take into account the experience you have and the role you work in.

I am doing the course with a collegue and she is using this course as an added stepping stone to help her get onto a foundation degree course in september.

Dawn

Well the FS was never taken account of from what I saw. It was still all splice and variations, no reference to the FS when I did some DPP in 2004. Nothing seemed to be aimed specifically at the FS. It would be good to think that all future training would be based on what actually happens in a setting. Newly quailified staff would know where they were starting from.

The thing I have never understood about CACHE (either as student or tutor) was that their courses don't offer any remission: If you did three terms for the CPP you still had to do four terms to get a DPP and now you'll have to do another two or three terms to go your Level 3 EYFS - that would be at least two and a half years from nought to fully qualified (always assuming your course provider could offer you the courses as you needed them). Obviously some people who scrape through their level 2 may benefit from completing the full DPP which extends and develops the knowledge gained from the CPP. However, for an able candidate it might be tortuous! I know that speed doesn't always equal quality: I'd always advise a student to go away and consolidate their learning by gaining more experience before moving on to the next level. But some students need a bit of a fast track for a variety of reasons.

One of my ladies would like to have done the SPLP (the first part of the CPP) and then move onto the DPP as I did. However you can't do the first part of the CPP on its own anymore, and our local college won't let her do the DPP without doing the CPP first. I can see the theory - but she doesn't want to spend the next seven terms gaining her qualification! Luckily we found another college a bit further away who are prepared to interview her to ascertain her experience and prior learning, assess her academic skills and then let her proceed to the DPP. Result!

It would be great if you could do the CPP, and then gain some credits towards a DPP rather than do the whole thing - and then if the EYFS certificate was an optional unit on the DPP you would really have a top quality level 3 qualification. But then I don't rule the world do I?

Maz

gosh, reading Mazs post sent me dizzy with CPP -DDP-SPLP- EYFS all going around in circles

Inge

[quote But then I don't rule the world do I?
Maz
[/quote]



Not yet Maz! Not yet!

I'd always advise a student to go away and consolidate their learning by gaining more experience before moving on to the next level. But some students need a bit of a fast track for a variety of reasons.

Never a truer word spoken, agree entirely Maz

I think that training providers should take account of APL, maybe students aren't fully advised or aware of this, or training providers either. Especially with all the training our LEA are offering each year now ( workshops etc)
MY own experience was as previously said:
did Introductory Course ( not even a level 1) in 1989
10 yrs experience and City in Guilds 730 (tutoring course - part 1),
then got APL to go straight into ADCE ( level 4)
then did my Cert Ed (post compulsory) equivalent level 3

Started a degree with APL for the first year for above qualifications, so only have to do 2 years to get my degree.

Hmmm, must start working on my assignment soon.


Peggy

But that would never do, would it Rea?

Its a fantastic blend of alphabet soup!

Maz

Just to throw a spanner in the works.... will this be a return to the 'what is acceptable L3' ?? Remember all the fuss about whether NNEB was still acceptable, a couple of years ago?

Sue

Indeed, when I did my BTEC it was said to be the most 'up to date and indepth' level 3 qualification at that time- higher than the NNEB that was 12 years ago- Yet now its not high enough.

There will always be this jumping through hoops when 'the powers that be' decide that experienced and already well qualified members of staff need to do even more work in order to keep their jobs!

Yes CPD is all very well and good but when the early years curriculum changes so much, since I have been working I have worked through the Desirable Outcomes, the FS and now the EYFS- we can't keep up.

Quite right Sue! I can remember sitting in PLA meetings some years ago and the committee mumbling about those with DPPs struggling to get their qualifications recognised at interviews because settings only rated the NNEB!

I suppose with the Common Core of Skills and Knowledge document (is that really what its called?) it should be easier to judge whether a qualification (backed up by the experience of the practitioner) is sound or not. That said, I'm not sure whether awarding bodies like CACHE map their criteria to the Common Core or not

Its all a bit hypothetical actually since I have a copy of the Common Core but haven't read it in any depth. One day...

Maz

Maz - you havnt read it - that does surprise me!!!!!

Good grief! I've just logged on after attaching the content of that certificate yesterday afternoon...40 posts!!!...I started something there didn't I?

Common Core of Skills and Knowledge, as I recall, read it what seems like years ago, when it first came out. Is only the basics I think.
I'm like jester and many others of us, been through P.I.L.E.S, D.O'.s F.S.C. B.T.T.M. (but not the EYFS for me).

The way it seems to me sometimes is that maturity, prior knowledge, skills and experience are not equally weighted as a paper qualification. I do not think I need to attend a course specifically focused on EYFS to be able to put it into practice, I can read the document, watch the CD, use the resources to enable me to impliment it, and if I did impliment it, I have the skills to relect on my practice and develop it. However, It seems I do need to do a course specifically focused on EYFS, to get the piece of paper that tells everyone else that I can impliment it..

People with higher educations , degree's and experience in the profession should be recognised as having the ability to read, digest and understand new curriculums without having to attend further training.

one day maybe............................


Peggy

I dont know what the EYFS training consists of but from what I've read so far in the EYFS pack and the book by Vicky Hutchin, I think training should be focused on observation skills rather than on the EYFS document as a whole. Most of the EYFS is straight forward once you read it, but implementing it is where I can see problems arising.

I work with loads of people who dont observe in a meaningful way, neat notes which are never used except to fill pages in a folder thats never looked at.
Observations are so much a part of the EYFS that to get that part wrong will dillute the whole thing and tick lists will again be part of nursery life.

I acknowledge that not all nurseries work like that, and certainly no-one here , but apathy (dont get paid to think outside of nursery) tradition (we dont do that) and inadequate training have given us a workforce in some places who wont understand the thinking behind observing children, and if they never did it before they wont see why they should do it now.

Dont quite know what I wanted to say now, but you get the gist!

My concern with all these courses are they don't teach staff the basics. I have sent 3 staff on the NVQ level 3 in childcare and when you speak to them they don't even know what a narrative observation is, let alone a tracking. with the EYFS centering so much on observation i'm concerned as it seems to be down to me to teach them how to do observations. I spoke to our early years team about it, to be told they don't do courses on how to observe- surely this is something that all early years workers need to be able to do.....

Observation should be covered on the NVQ Level 3 - It certainly was on the DPP when I did mine. One assignment covered the observations of a target child and we had to do quite in depth evaluations of such observations using several different methods.

It was part of my DPP too, and thats my point, it seems students arent being asked to cover the same things now. There are loads of different types of obs but most people arent aware of that, and the ones they are aware of dont seem to be used.

I also did a seperate course on observations just after I'd done the DPP, so I know they used to exsist at least here in Birmingham.

I also think child development should be looked at more closely, its surprising how many people havent heard of some of the main theorists, let alone how their work is used in educational settings.

Hopefully with the Governmets aim to have degree level people in settings these things will be addressed in some way.

That was one thing I thought was a let down with the BTEC- we did 6 major observations over the 2 years which I don't think was enough at all! we did one on breast feeding, one on weaning, one on physical development, language development, and intellectual development (back in the day of P.I.L.E.S) and an ongoing baby study. I had to teach myself to do proper observations after that and feel I am still having to develp these skills further after never really been shown correctly!!!
As you say observing is a skill that early years workers absoluetly need in order to do their jobs properly!

Back in the Dark Ages (well, about ten years ago), the PLA, as they were then, did some great Obs and Child Development courses. I did my DPP with them and received fantastic training in Obs. I then did NVQ L 3, thought nothing of Obs and did fine. Yes I agree, there does need to be some formal training in Obs at a fairly high profile, but how? where? when?
While ever there's this push to churn out practitioners it is going to be down to us on the 'shop floor' to provide training that should be basic. Begs the question, how do candidates get through the obs unit if they are 'realistically' untrained .....?

I have also been an Assessor and PSLA Tutor, including Obs courses - it really shouldn't be hard to timetable in some basics!

Hi, I am a new member to the forum and have a BA in Professional Education Studies, a CACHE Level 3 Certificate in Working with Childre (APEL), EYPS and am now studying the CACHE Level 3 Certificate in Early Years Foundation Stage.

This is not a full Level 3 Certificate, but expands development to take account of changes in the education of children in settings.
The first term consisted of the theory behind the EYFS and next term we will be looking at the planning side of it.

The assessment is based on:-
Assessor Observation - where your tutor comes into the setting and watches you whilst you work with the children.
Walk and Talk - where you discuss aaspects of who you would talk to about procedures etc to keep children safe ie. policies, child protection, other agencies, types of activities to take the children onto the next stage of their development.
Reflective Tasks - where you choose areas of your practice to highlight what you do and how, to give an indication of your strengths and any areas which need to be developed furthe.

I am finding it very useful to have the time to look into the EYFS in more depth, rather than dipping into just one or two sections.

Hope this is helpful to you.
Core