Sorry this could be a long one.

I am currently working as an unqualified teacher in a small primary school I have been there for just over 2 years and I really enjoy it. I started off as a nursery nurse and then was promoted to teach reception and pre school due to the school having increasing numbrs of reception children and my experience in the early years.

I did a BTEC ND in Nursery Nursing 10 years ago and have worked in many settings including special schools, nuseries, playgroups and as a nanny. Inbewteen this time I did BA hons in Fine Art so that I would have the degree to go into teacher training and went for the job at the school so I could gain relevent experience.

The only thing I don't have is a maths GCSE at C- The highest grade I have is a D which I upgraded from an E a couple of years ago- It was a real struggle doing maths again after all these years more so as I have dyslexia and dyscalculia so I don't pick things up quite as easily as most people, I started a course again in Sepetmber but I had to give it up as it was stressing me out so much and I just wasn't in the right frame of mind to do it.

I was very excited to hear of the EYPS at a 2006 EY conference but dismayed to hear that I would still need to gain maths in order to do it!

Now I am at a stage where I feel that I am not enough- I feel I am stuck and that if I want to stay working in early years education I must do teacher training or EYPS. I have thought of restarting maths again this year but my husband says he is not sure he can go through that again

Can anyone offer me any words of wisdom, or any advice of other maths courses out there which are level to GCSE maths (the level 2 certificate in numeracy is not indepth enough apparently )

This whole thing is like a cloud over my life at the moment and I don't quite know what to do.

Hi Jester
Welcome to the site.You sound to be getting yourself in a real pickle, calm down.
Our school has had a few student teachers now, PGCE and SCITT these have been 1 year courses for students with a degree and the students have had to do a maths and literacy test, apparantly it is on line and you can do it as many times as you need to .
perhaps you should contact your nearest uni that does PGCE courses and ask for some advice?
Good luck
Tinkerbellx

hi you will find that the maths and literacy test is not equivilent to the gcse c grade unfortunatly as maz and i did these last year...

jester ask your uni who you would do eyps if they do the equivilency test as ours are... it is definitly easier than a proper gcse, so worth a try

I have also heard that there are more "friendly" ways of obtaining your Maths GCSE these days, including some kind of modular approach where you are tested at the end of each section and can retake as many times as you need to - others will know more than me about this I'm sure.

It sounds as though you are a very committed, experienced and knowledgeable practitieoner and it would be a shame if this prevented you from developing your career further...our profession needs you! Don't get down about it, you'll work through all your worries in the end...and we're all here to support you!

Hi jester
Mundia is a bit of an expert on this sort of thing, at the very least she will be able to point you in the right direction for advice. I would be reluctant to advice you which way to jump if you are choosing between QTS and EYPS although I have been told that EYPS is not available for those in the maintained sector at the moment. I will alert Mundia to your plight.
Meanwhile, enjoy the job you do!

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum. I am sure Mundia will come along soon and help you out.

I know how it feels to as I have dyslexia and dyscalculia. I am around half way through a Foundation Degree Early Years and I am hoping to go on and top up with a full degree in teaching early years with QTS stauts. All I need to do is get my English, Maths and Sicence GCSE or equivelent which I know they have at my colllege, so the best bet is to ask your local colleges if they have any suitable courses for you to do.


Beth

There are alternatives to Maths GCSE out there lots of ACCESS courses offer qualifications which are recognised I suggest contacting your local college. My friend did her exam on line at college and found it less scary. Take a look at http://www.move-on.org.uk/ which as some test papers you can do on line. Good Luck

Hi there,

wow I didin't expect so many replies so quickly! Thank you all. Susan, I am sure that someone else told me that EYPS is not avaible in maintained yet, very odd considering they want all professionals to hold the status by 2010 (correct me if I am wrong)

Thanks for the link Marion.

The govenrment target is for there to be an EYP in every Children's Centre by 2010 and in every early years setting by 2015.

Hi Jester

Welcome to the Forum, first of all!

Gosh what a lot of experience you have - and as someone else said, you're obviously very committed to early years!

The first thing I want to say to you is please don't spend time worrying about the barriers that might be put in your way - you have such a lot to offer and there will be a way for you to gain the necessary pieces of paper to achieve your career goals.

I know that on our BA course there are a lot of people who are already teaching, but I'm not very clued up on what qualifications teachers need - do you need to undertake more training in order to be qualified to do the job you do now? Or is the need to gain a qualification coming from within you? If you need the qualification for work, what sort of support is the school going to offer you? They have a vested interest (I would have thought) in helping you gain the relevant qualification.

As Hali said, our University (Reading) is making provision for those of us without maths to do a GCSE equivalency exam. The University sets its own paper using GCSE questions and we attend weekly-ish sessions which provides target tuition, having done an initial assessment (very informal) to find out what our skills were. Obviously each uni is different, but the thinking behind this approach is that because many of us in early years haven't had the opportunity to gain the necessary entry qualifications, extra provision needs to be made in order to offer equality of opportunity.

I would begin at school by asking them for some sound advice as to how to proceed and then as Beth says, go and talk to the training provider - whether Uni or college - and have a chat with them about your options. They will be able to offer you help both in choosing the right path, and identifying how they can support you during your studies.

Good luck - and as Corporal Jones would say "don't panic"!

Maz

Hi Maz, thank you for your feedback it definitely makes me feel more positive!

My school are happy to keep me on for as long as I want to stay- I must admit I want to gain QTS so that I will be able to work in other settings in the future and so when I have my own children I have something that I can go back to fairly easily.

Yes my school are very supportive and the head encourages all staff in their professional development. Together we have found a way that I can do teacher training- a QTS only assessment route with the University of Glouster- I tick all the boxes bar the maths one this would mean that I could stay doing the job that I do and I would be training on the job, the best thing about this is that I can apply at anytime.

http://www.glos.ac.uk/subjectsandcourses/t...s/entry2007.cfm

One part of me thinks why not just apply now and see what happens? would this be a crazy thing to do?

Hi Jester,

I found exactly the same thing, however, I'm doing my Foundation Degree through the OU, who do not require me to do Maths gcse as an extra! My local uni's and college all stated that I'd have to do the gcse though. Hope that helps x

I don't think you need maths to do a foundation degree but you do need it for teacher training- how strange that some places said you need it?

You really would think that they shoukld look at ability and experience over examination standards! After all you could have O'level maths dated to the 1960's, but all forgotten!

I know! my colleage and I rant about this regularly- its ridiculous! I read in Nursery World about a nursery teacher who had been teaching for 20 odd years and ran a early years unit and wanted to gain EYPS, she was told that she would have to redo her maths as she had done it too long ago

It is these stupid standards that is making people want to throw in the towel (myself included) because it's all about bits of paper!

Sounds like a good idea to me - bit like the EYPS in fact!

Doesn't sound at all like a crazy idea to me - you've got nothing to lose (except sleep) and everything to gain (grey hairs?).

Good to hear you sounding a bit more positive - let us know what you decide!

Maz

We asked this question - and were told it was so that no-one could say EYPs couldn't have equality of status because they lacked the GCSEs that teachers need to have in order to qualify!

I just keep banging on to my children about how important it is to get at least a 'C' in their GCSEs - if only to help out their poor old mum do her equivalency exam.

Oh and mundia - just to update you. I passed! I am now the proud owner of a GCSE equivalent to maths at 'C'. All that counting I had to do for the Great Big FSF Quiz for Children in Need obviously did the trick!

Maz

I already have plenty of those and I'm not even 28 yet

Ah! Congratulations and very well done Maz.

Break out the vino.............again!!!

oh for goodness sake! surely the whole point should have been valuing practioners for the qualifications, knowledge and experience they already have without making them do more studying!

Well done on your GCSE, what was the actual title of the test called?

Hi Jester, sorry I haven't got back to you earlier, Ive been a bit out of sorts, and away from the forum for a few weeks, and juts catching up.

First of all, there are regulations about the length of time that teacher can be appointed as unqualified, it varies from LA to LA but if usually around 4-5 years. Heads are also meant to show that they could not recruit a qualified teacher, and that the appointment is dependent upon the person getting QTS. Obviously some LAs and some schools are stricter than others about this, but you do need get QTS to protect yourself in the future if you want to remain teaching, and you will certainly need it to move to another school.

With regard to the assessment only route, you need to be aware that you will have to get some teaching experience in key stage one, as you effectively must qualify for a minimum of two phases. It is always advisable to gain this experience (usually a block of 5-6 weeks does the trick) to get it in another school, which will mean your school puts in place a cover for your class whilst you get this experience. It is important that you get this experience as a teacher rather than a TA from previous jobs, as you cannot guarantee that you will always be teaching in FS, and you need to be aware of what goes in in say a year 2 class.

With regard to the maths, there are many alternatives as suggested by others, and you will need to contact the proposed provider to see what they will accept as alternatives. Some places you can do a test to check equivalency, some require a short course, but I would strongly advise you to check with the provider first before going off and doing one only to find that Gloucester don't accept it. You will also need English and science GCSE.
You will still need to do the online skills tests as well, but you can worry about those once you are on the course. They can make an additional time allowance for people with dyslexia or any other specific difficulty, (extra time for example)which you would need to discuss at your interview.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, it will be worth it in the end.

Maz, congrats on that maths then! Im so glad I got you to do all that counting...
I know its really very frustrating, but there are reasons why a basic standard of maths and English are required for teaching (and hence the EYPS,).

Hi Mundia,

Yes I am aware that I can only be employed in that capacity for 4-5 years. and I do want to gain QTS so that I can work elsewhere in the future.

I have taught KS1 last year and also KS2 for art last half term, however I will put your suggestion across to my head and see what she says I think it would be a good idea for me to work in a different school- it will help keep me fresh!

I already have english and science so am ok in that sense it is just the maths

I have decided to apply for the Assessment only route now anyway and see what happens... it can't hurt really can it- it will get me out of this rut of feeling a bit pathetic anyway.

Hello Jester

I am 46 years old and have a lot of early years experience, I have studied hard at home over 5 years to achieve my Foundation Degree (last year) with the Open University and am now starting the last course to get a BA in Early Years Education, hopefully by the end of this year. I got really excited by the introduction of the Early Years Professional Status. I will not achieve this without getting my C grade in GCSE Maths. I am slightly dyslexic and had terrible experiences at school with Maths ( being stood in the corner because I didn't know my times tables was one thing that springs to mind). I achieved A for my English and B for Biology but was not even entered for GCSE maths.

I never want to be a teacher, early years is where I know I want to stay, I understand how to add, subtract, multiply and divide. I have a great enthusiasm for planning maths type activities and showing the maths in everyday things for children up to the age of 5. Do I really need to get Maths GCSE ? I do not understand why and it is also proving to be a huge obstacle for my progression in the Early Years field.

My own children both achieved A grades for their GCSE Maths, but when I looked at their work I could not understand a lot of it!

I am really interested in the replies you have received and the different places and opinions relating to Maths. With the OU who are now offering the EYPS with NDNA to register for the pathways you have to have GCSE Maths proof to register.

I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do


Teri

Hi Jester, yes go for it, you have nothing to lose and loads to gain. I think there is only one place in the country doing the assessment route, so it may not be easy to get on it, but at least make enquiries and apply, and find out what they can do to help with with the maths equivalence.

Teri, my colleague and I are doing EYPs together and she doesnt have maths either. Hoverer she is still doing the course as long as she has made a commitment to getting the maths before she can be awarded the status. It appears to vary with providers.

Thanks Mundia, I will make enquiries - I have only looked at the OU as I am used to the way they work, I will look elsewhere and perhaps enroll on an adult ed. GCSE Maths course in the evenings, it I go for the long pathway I will have 15 months to try and try again!!

Hi Teri well done on your acheievments are your uni not putting on a MATHS course for you - just asking as ours is!

Its reassuring to know I am not the only one! its so frustrating isn't it? especially when you know its your biggest enemy so to speak in the way!

Anyway, I have decided I am going to have a chat with hubby tonight, I have worked out things in my mind about this and now I am ready to talk it over- I am going to ring up the university of Gloucester and see what they say before I apply- then if they say no you must have GCSE maths we cannot do an equivelency test. I will have to seriously think about doing the adult ed class that starts next week.

good, let us know how it goes with them wont you?

Thanks Mundia, and thank you to everyone who has replied. I felt like I have been boring everyone around me with what seems like a constant battle with what to do so it's good to get advice from an unbiased audience who have some idea what I am going through.

Sometimes you need to 'talk' to people who understand the issues but who don't really know you and your situation - and we're always here when your friends and family start raising their eyebrows and giving you the "here we go again" face!

Let us know what you decide - and what the Uni says. Somewhere there should be a list of providers, what each one's entry requirements are and what facilities they offer for students who need to 'catch up' or fill gaps in their previous education.

Maz

Our course certainly required us to have a GCSE in maths - but because we were the first cohort they decided to enable us to sit the Level 2 numeracy test during the two year study period.

I think they look for a GCSE in maths and english to point to an underlying standard of academic ability which kind of makes sense. More than a bit of a pain for those of us whose memories of maths lessons at school bring us out in the heebie jeebies!

Maz

I have been reading this and several other posts regarding the need for GCSE's with interest. I have to agree that they are required to show an underlying standard of academic ability. In order to begin the GTP I needed to get GCSE maths I now have 2 GCSE grade d's and a Grade C!

I like others have vast amount of experience, an early years degree and a nursery nursing qualification and yet I still feel that all my O'levels and GCSE's give me a broad academic knowledge that has supported my further education and comes into play in the classroom. Despite it being over 20 years ago I still find myself recalling some fact or okay a mere hint of memory of something I learnt at school.

I have also worked with practitioners who have excellent skills in other areas yet cannot spell or display little knowledge of punctuation and grammer, this has become a problem when they have misspelt annotations on pieces of work that parents or indeed children have noticed and corrected. Whilst I am not saying we need to be perfect and indeed it is valuable for the children to see we do not know everything, I do believe a certain standard of education is required and a bench mark has to be set somewhere.

I struggled with my maths, sweated throughout the on line QTS test yet I am also incredibly proud of myself for sticking with it and highly impressed with those who have had to go even further and gain GSCE's in English, maths and science in order to get to where they want to be.

I still feel it was worth the effort, however I haven't felt the need to introduce the children in my reception class to Mr. Pythagoras!

Sharon

yes very true!

Had a chat with my husband about it again to day and he rolled his eyes and was like well hun if you want to do the maths you have to WANT to do it, I know what your like

I called the University of Gloucester who said they do offer an equivalency test at £90 a time but suggested I look at doing it nearer to me.

They have also suggested that I gain more experience in KS1 which I am going to discuss with the head.

Hi Terri
I also completed the foundation degree with the OU in June 07 and am about to start the BA top up. I did consider the long EYPS route with EM Direct but have decided to gain the BA and then do the short route

Good luck

Cathy

A wise move Cathy! I'm currently doing the BA and the long pathway EYPS - can be a bit hectic!

Maz

a bit hetic - thats an understatment Maz!!!!!!!

Ah, but where would we be without a bit of hectic-ness in our lives??? Don't answer that!

Following on from earlier I had a long chat with the equivalency testing company this afternoon (which the University of Glouscester referred me to) and am seriously looking at this option. I downloaded all the information for it and have discussed it with work colleagues as well, who believe it to be more realsitic for me to achieve.

I had a chat with my husband and he said 'well we would have to get you a desk' (so thats a good sign!) I'm just a bit worried about sitting an exam BUT the good thing about this is that I would be able to sit the exams at school as they would send the papers there so at least would be in familar surroundings. This makes me feel a bit better. Also the prospect of doing it in 12 weeks is somewhat enlightening and means that I may be able to retain the information for longer than a few weeks.

I also spoke to my head about gaining more KS1 experience in the summer term which would not only benefit me but also the KS1 teacher would be gaining more experience in the early years and she is looking into when would be the best time in the term for this to happen.

It's still early days at the moment but already I am feeling like I am getting somewhere instead of feeling like doors are shutting in my face.

There is more than one option out there for those of us that want to further our careers within early years care and education but I do feel that we don't always get the full options unless we ask!