57 replies to this topic

[Steve]

Hi all -
I'm happy to let you know that we've made the first (beta) version of our Progress Recording and Monitoring System (PRAMS) available in the resource library. You can find it, along with versions of the userguide, in the area 'PRAMS and Progress Matters'. The video tutorials I've mentioned elsewhere are still available from this page

BUT - WAIT...

Don't all rush off at once without reading the rest of this...

Some things to take into account:

• You will need a recent version of Java installed to run the program. Most PCs (as with Flash which you need to run, for example, YouTube videos) will already have this installed, but if not you can download it free from this page
  
• PRAMS is currently at a relatively early stage of development and therefore reliability. We have found this latest version to be relatively stable and reliable over the last week - however please don't think of it as a finished product and dedicate hours of time entering your data. Over the next few weeks we will be releasing regular updates to introduce new features and fix any bugs that you may find. Although we believe version changes will not require data to be re-entered, we cannot guarantee this.
  
• The reports facility is currently relatively sparce. This is obviously the area that turns your raw data into useable information and therefore the output from your data will be correspondingly thin. The reports area is where we will be spending most time over the next few weeks and would particularly value your feedback. What information would you like to see most that can be calculated from the data you're inputting? We have a set that we'll be producing but would like to generate information that you, the users, will find most useful.

This forum area will be the engine room of the final product. The more you engage and discuss here, the better PRAMS will become. We're very excited about showing it to you for the first time and are confident you'll join in with its development in the usual FSF spirit of positive and passionate debate!

[Steve]

Whoops - I forgot to let you know. We have actually slightly updated the program since yesterday in order to begin implementing the 'groups' feature. But it's not (obviously) in either the user guide or the video, so I'd suggest that you ignore the feature as much as possible. The three most obvious areas are:

1 When you select the 'children's progress information' menu option it opens up a dialogue box called 'Select Children'. This is an area where you can select the children you want to appear in the list available in the 'Progress' screen. Rather than start messing about with the options here (unless you're feeling very brave) just click the top green 'Add All' button and you'll see the children's names all move over to the right hand side. Then click 'OK' and you'll be taken on to the 'Progress' screen. This of course assumes that you've either opened up the dummy data file or started adding children of your own.

2 In the 'Manager's Information' screen, when you click either of the large pink buttons (Manage Children and Manage Staff) you'll find the same box appearing for both staff and children. Just click the 'Add all' button again and you'll be taken on to the relevant screens.

3 Additionally, there's a new 'Manage Groups' button in the 'Manager's Information' screen. You can use this to enter the 'groups' feature and set new groups up, but again, this isn't explained anywhere in the guide or tutorials. (Incidentally, the groups feature will also allow selection of cohorts.

Hope all that makes sense!

[HappyMaz]

OK then, here I am with my first queries:-

1. I can't seem to get it to save my changes when I ask it to load the specific file I want - it just says 'unable to load/save settings'.
2. Is there a way of displaying the 'known as' name on the list of children?
3. Why aren't the Early Learning Goals shown after the 40-60+ months development matters statements?

Other than that, I'm really enjoying using it - so easy to switch between children, and between areas of learning and the aspects of each. The videos are extremely helpful - how useful to be able to see it being used rather than needing to read a manual!

Maz

[Steve]

Thanks Maz. Now here's a thing - how to keep control of live issues. I may set up a bug tracker to take care of this if there are more than a few ongoing issues. There's actually only one 'bug' style issue here, so I'll answer it directly for the moment:

Quote

I can't seem to get it to save my changes when I ask it to load the specific file I want - it just says 'unable to load/save settings'.

I've just tried out a 'new' file and 'save as' routine, and while I can't reproduce your problem I can see that it's got some inelegance about where it saves. I'll work through these with Matt tomorrow morning. In the meantime:

• Are you trying to save to a specific folder (changing the default one that comes up)? If so, does the folder already exist - eg a folder inside 'My Documents'?
  
• If you're trying to save to a particular folder, try browsing to 'My Documents' and see if you're able to save it there (it won't be for long so you should be able to keep track of it.
  
• If you get to the point of being able to save a new filename, make sure you've got 'The Last Setting Loaded' selected in your setup screen, then exit the program, select yes to save, re-load the program and check that it's loading the file correctly.

In response to 2. not currently. But I'll put it down as a fairly obvious feature request and thanks for the suggestion.

In response to 3. we've had long conversations about the Early Learning Goals and how/where/whether to include them. Your suggestion is one of the possibilities, but I think it would be useful to have a discussion to get people's views before we settle on a plan.

[HappyMaz]

Steve, on Jan 13 2010, 16:56, said:

[*]Are you trying to save to a specific folder (changing the default one that comes up)? If so, does the folder already exist - eg a folder inside 'My Documents'?

I created my setting's file, saved it in my documents, in my PRAMS folder. I entered data etc, and saved it when I'd finished. Then I tried to change the default settings so that it would either open the last setting loaded, or the specific file, using the browse feature to go to the right place.

It allowed me to click on the file name to select it, but when I clicked ok to save the changes, it gave me the error message.

I did notice one anomaly - on the Setup screen it says the Default Save Folder is C:\Users\Marion\Documents but the file is in C:\Users\Marion\Documents\PRAMS. Changing it has the same effect - won't let me save the changes.

Yours,
technically incompetent of Maidenhead

[Steve]

No technical incompetence involved Marion. When you look at the top of the program window, does it have a filename on it? Like this (where I have the filename 'maztest'):

 maztest.gif   7.56K   19 downloads

Or is it blank after PRAMS v0.xxx?

If it's not blank, note the name and go to your search facility (if you're running Vista click the Windows Start button and type into the search field at bottom left). If it throws up any results, right click and then click 'Open file location', and see where the file is.

If not we're back to square one and we might have to work it out via PM.

[HappyMaz]

OK so I looked and the setting name with the stg extension is shown next to the PRAMS version. I did the search thing as you described and found the file where I expected it to be.

It isn't a big problem for me to workaround it in the way I am at the moment, but it will be interesting to see if anyone else has the same problem!

Maz

PS First time I've had a test named after me. I quite like it - perhaps when I'm next critically evaluating something I'll ask myself it will pass the MazTest!

[Helen]

The ELGs should be there....they are in the 40-60 months band. Do you think they should be in bold, to make them more obvious? I'm now going to check that they're there......

[HappyMaz]

You're right, they are there with the 40 - 60+ months statements. I think they should be there in their own right - otherwise we might be suggesting that children have achieved the ELGs when we really mean they are operating securely in the pre-ELG age phase.

Maz

PS I'm going to go away and look at the EYFS just to make sure that I haven't made an artificial distinction between 40 - 60+ months and ELGs in my observation trackers!

[JacquieL]

Helen I think the ELGs in bold is a good idea and then it makes them stand out clearly.

[HappyMaz]

HappyMaz, on Jan 13 2010, 19:32, said:

PS I'm going to go away and look at the EYFS just to make sure that I haven't made an artificial distinction between 40 - 60+ months and ELGs in my observation trackers!

Well that's interesting - I'd never noticed that before! In the EYFS materials they are shown together, with the ELGs in bold. In my observation tracker I've put them in a separate category.

So there's a philosophical question here. If we take PSED, Dispositions and attitudes, the development matters statements are "displays high levels of involvement with activities" and "persists for extended periods of time at an activity of his/her choosing". The ELGS are "continues to be interested, excited and motivated to learn", "be confident to try new activities, initiate ideas and speak in a familiar group" and "maintains attention, concentrate and sit quietly when appropriate".

Is there a significant enough jump from these two development matters statements before they can be said to have met the Early Learning Goals for the ELGs to be put into a separate category of their own? If we don't have evidence to show that children have met the ELGs but we have evidence to show they have achieved the earlier development matters statements for the 40-60+ months age phase, are we overstating children's achievements, with all that entails?

Of course I haven't seen the reports that are generated yet, which may make a difference to how I see things!

I'm going to lie down in a darkened room for a while...

Maz

[Helen]

I think there may be scope for putting the ELGs in a separate column. You're right that if a child is assessed as working within the 40-60 age band, it looks like they've achieved the ELGs, which is clearly not the same thing.

[mattkelly]

Hi Maz,

I think Steve has slightly misunderstood the nature of your error. It is actually failing to save your settings, not your setting. I can see that this is an easy mistake to make due to the homonyms. Basically it needs to save your preferences (like what it loads when it starts) to a file so that it knows what to do next time you run it. Can you have a look in the folder PRAMS installed to (should be something along the lines of "C:\Program Files\The Foundation Stage Forum\PRAMS" and see if there is a file called saveLoadSettings.psg? Also can you right click on the PRAMS folder in question and click "properties" and see if the "Read-only" box is checked or filled in? If it is, can you uncheck that box and click "Apply" then "OK". Then start PRAMS and try it again. Hopefully this will sort out the problem.

Sorry PRAMS has caused this trouble for you.

Matt.

[Sue R]

OOOH

I haven't had time to do more than dabble - do I really want to, given my record??

A new challenge - hope you've got lots of patience, Matt

[Steve]

And Matt, our software engineer, pokes his nose out of the door of the moderator's forum for the first time! Welcome to the turbulence of the real FSF Matt!