Having worked in a nursery fror many years with different teachers, I have noticed thay all have had very different views when it comes to children's drawings.
Some believe we should direst the children when they are drawing, so they gain a recognisable outcome and others allow the children to freely draw and have a picture only they recognise.
what view should i follow? at present i believe in a bit of both.
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Childrens Drawings
Started by jaime, Jul 21 2003 08:00 PM
51 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 21 July 2003 - 09:53 PM
Hi Jaime -
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! :D
What's your own position in the nursery? I'm not experienced in art theory myself, but I bet Kate and others will have something to say in the matter. Think I'll leave it to them to comment here...
Welcome again - Regards, Steve.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! :D
What's your own position in the nursery? I'm not experienced in art theory myself, but I bet Kate and others will have something to say in the matter. Think I'll leave it to them to comment here...
Welcome again - Regards, Steve.
'There are no ordinary people. It is immortals whom we work with, joke with, marry, snub and exploit.'
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Posted 21 July 2003 - 10:53 PM
jaime, on Jul 21 2003, 09:00 PM, said:
Having worked in a nursery fror many years with different teachers, I have noticed thay all have had very different views when it comes to children's drawings.
Some believe we should direst the children when they are drawing, so they gain a recognisable outcome and others allow the children to freely draw and have a picture only they recognise.
what view should i follow? at present i believe in a bit of both.
Some believe we should direst the children when they are drawing, so they gain a recognisable outcome and others allow the children to freely draw and have a picture only they recognise.
what view should i follow? at present i believe in a bit of both.
I love to see childrens artwork in any shape or form - I always find that as they develop and they are able to talk about their pictures and what's happening then at this stage its a good idea to talk about their drawings in a constructive, positive and suggestive way - sometimes they take this on board - sometimes they don't. I've had a spider with ten legs - that's because it's grown up! :) There was no way he wanted to put in eight and had great pleasure in counting them all out - surely he has learnt just as much from the counting than the fact that spiders have eight legs!
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Posted 22 July 2003 - 07:08 PM
Steve, on Jul 21 2003, 10:53 PM, said:
Hi Jaime -
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! :D
What's your own position in the nursery? I'm not experienced in art theory myself, but I bet Kate and others will have something to say in the matter. Think I'll leave it to them to comment here...
Welcome again - Regards, Steve.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting! :D
What's your own position in the nursery? I'm not experienced in art theory myself, but I bet Kate and others will have something to say in the matter. Think I'll leave it to them to comment here...
Welcome again - Regards, Steve.
At present i am a nursery nurse in the nursery but as from september i will be the nursery leader., its a state nursery.
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Posted 22 July 2003 - 08:19 PM
Hello therre
I think it all depends very much on what you want the children to produce as a result of the task you have set, if indeed there has been one. There is a distinct difference between leting children draw for the sake of it and explore their world as it appears to them and teaching children how to drwa.
Who are we to question the accuracy of a child's image and/or mark making when we can't see or experience what they are seeing and experiencing?
All children develop at different stages and drawing is no exception.
I am a teacher and a parent and sometimes I found it very difficult to allow my daughter to make and create these 'things 'that she insisted were robots and cars and castlesetc. However, I held my nerve and desisted from interference and how rewarding it has been. She obviously has a clear vision of what she wants to make and now this is coming through in her drawing. I have learnt so much about how she sees things and what's important to her and what her world means.
We also draw together and I draw for her or alongside her. As with behaviour and language, modelling how to draw something (not stereo typically) is a great way to learn and if adults feel they can't draw, then so what...now you know what the children feel like and , hey, we all mistakes.
On the other hand....how can we expect children to develop without showing them or encouraging them to draw in a guided way. Interestingly my dissertation is coming along these lines. Art / drawing as a discrete subject in early years is shied away from y many because there is concern at interfering and doing it for them. But just because you demonstrate and give children the chance does not mean it is wrong. You are giving them an opportunity to see what another person can do and to interpret something in a more specific way.
A balance , I think, is the answer, but remembering that all children are as individual as their drawings and all drawings are as individual as the child that makes them.
I could go onn......, let me know
Kate :D
I think it all depends very much on what you want the children to produce as a result of the task you have set, if indeed there has been one. There is a distinct difference between leting children draw for the sake of it and explore their world as it appears to them and teaching children how to drwa.
Who are we to question the accuracy of a child's image and/or mark making when we can't see or experience what they are seeing and experiencing?
All children develop at different stages and drawing is no exception.
I am a teacher and a parent and sometimes I found it very difficult to allow my daughter to make and create these 'things 'that she insisted were robots and cars and castlesetc. However, I held my nerve and desisted from interference and how rewarding it has been. She obviously has a clear vision of what she wants to make and now this is coming through in her drawing. I have learnt so much about how she sees things and what's important to her and what her world means.
We also draw together and I draw for her or alongside her. As with behaviour and language, modelling how to draw something (not stereo typically) is a great way to learn and if adults feel they can't draw, then so what...now you know what the children feel like and , hey, we all mistakes.
On the other hand....how can we expect children to develop without showing them or encouraging them to draw in a guided way. Interestingly my dissertation is coming along these lines. Art / drawing as a discrete subject in early years is shied away from y many because there is concern at interfering and doing it for them. But just because you demonstrate and give children the chance does not mean it is wrong. You are giving them an opportunity to see what another person can do and to interpret something in a more specific way.
A balance , I think, is the answer, but remembering that all children are as individual as their drawings and all drawings are as individual as the child that makes them.
I could go onn......, let me know
Kate :D
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 08:28 PM
kate, on Jul 22 2003, 09:19 PM, said:
Hello therre
I think it all depends very much on what you want the children to produce as a result of the task you have set, if indeed there has been one. There is a distinct difference between leting children draw for the sake of it and explore their world as it appears to them and teaching children how to drwa.
Who are we to question the accuracy of a child's image and/or mark making when we can't see or experience what they are seeing and experiencing?
All children develop at different stages and drawing is no exception.
I am a teacher and a parent and sometimes I found it very difficult to allow my daughter to make and create these 'things 'that she insisted were robots and cars and castlesetc. However, I held my nerve and desisted from interference and how rewarding it has been. She obviously has a clear vision of what she wants to make and now this is coming through in her drawing. I have learnt so much about how she sees things and what's important to her and what her world means.
We also draw together and I draw for her or alongside her. As with behaviour and language, modelling how to draw something (not stereo typically) is a great way to learn and if adults feel they can't draw, then so what...now you know what the children feel like and , hey, we all mistakes.
On the other hand....how can we expect children to develop without showing them or encouraging them to draw in a guided way. Interestingly my dissertation is coming along these lines. Art / drawing as a discrete subject in early years is shied away from y many because there is concern at interfering and doing it for them. But just because you demonstrate and give children the chance does not mean it is wrong. You are giving them an opportunity to see what another person can do and to interpret something in a more specific way.
A balance , I think, is the answer, but remembering that all children are as individual as their drawings and all drawings are as individual as the child that makes them.
I could go onn......, let me know
Kate :D
I think it all depends very much on what you want the children to produce as a result of the task you have set, if indeed there has been one. There is a distinct difference between leting children draw for the sake of it and explore their world as it appears to them and teaching children how to drwa.
Who are we to question the accuracy of a child's image and/or mark making when we can't see or experience what they are seeing and experiencing?
All children develop at different stages and drawing is no exception.
I am a teacher and a parent and sometimes I found it very difficult to allow my daughter to make and create these 'things 'that she insisted were robots and cars and castlesetc. However, I held my nerve and desisted from interference and how rewarding it has been. She obviously has a clear vision of what she wants to make and now this is coming through in her drawing. I have learnt so much about how she sees things and what's important to her and what her world means.
We also draw together and I draw for her or alongside her. As with behaviour and language, modelling how to draw something (not stereo typically) is a great way to learn and if adults feel they can't draw, then so what...now you know what the children feel like and , hey, we all mistakes.
On the other hand....how can we expect children to develop without showing them or encouraging them to draw in a guided way. Interestingly my dissertation is coming along these lines. Art / drawing as a discrete subject in early years is shied away from y many because there is concern at interfering and doing it for them. But just because you demonstrate and give children the chance does not mean it is wrong. You are giving them an opportunity to see what another person can do and to interpret something in a more specific way.
A balance , I think, is the answer, but remembering that all children are as individual as their drawings and all drawings are as individual as the child that makes them.
I could go onn......, let me know
Kate :D
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Posted 23 July 2003 - 09:34 PM
We have a combination of free drawing/painting and guided stuff. When they are at the writing table with small chalk boards, white boards, paper and crayons, felt pens etc. the children are given a free reign and can do their own thing. The same goes for the easel for free painting, chalks and white board.
On occasions though we will direct the children, for example if they are doing a self portrait or an observational painting/drawing. At these times we ask them to think about what they are painting/drawing. So, if it is a self portrait we make them think about the shape of their face, what colour eyes and hair they have etc. We will do this sometimes if they are painting/drawing an animal, their home etc. It's amazing what they can do if they are made to think about it. Sometimes parents say that their child has not done this painting, as though we have held their hand with the paint brush-we don't. We just make them think about what they are doing.
I think a combination of the two gives the children freedom to use their own imagination and also some guidance.
Hope this helps.
Linda
On occasions though we will direct the children, for example if they are doing a self portrait or an observational painting/drawing. At these times we ask them to think about what they are painting/drawing. So, if it is a self portrait we make them think about the shape of their face, what colour eyes and hair they have etc. We will do this sometimes if they are painting/drawing an animal, their home etc. It's amazing what they can do if they are made to think about it. Sometimes parents say that their child has not done this painting, as though we have held their hand with the paint brush-we don't. We just make them think about what they are doing.
I think a combination of the two gives the children freedom to use their own imagination and also some guidance.
Hope this helps.
Linda
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Posted 24 July 2003 - 06:59 AM
Linda McDowell, on Jul 23 2003, 10:34 PM, said:
We have a combination of free drawing/painting and guided stuff. When they are at the writing table with small chalk boards, white boards, paper and crayons, felt pens etc. the children are given a free reign and can do their own thing. The same goes for the easel for free painting, chalks and white board.
On occasions though we will direct the children, for example if they are doing a self portrait or an observational painting/drawing. At these times we ask them to think about what they are painting/drawing. So, if it is a self portrait we make them think about the shape of their face, what colour eyes and hair they have etc. We will do this sometimes if they are painting/drawing an animal, their home etc. It's amazing what they can do if they are made to think about it. Sometimes parents say that their child has not done this painting, as though we have held their hand with the paint brush-we don't. We just make them think about what they are doing.
I think a combination of the two gives the children freedom to use their own imagination and also some guidance.
Hope this helps.
Linda
On occasions though we will direct the children, for example if they are doing a self portrait or an observational painting/drawing. At these times we ask them to think about what they are painting/drawing. So, if it is a self portrait we make them think about the shape of their face, what colour eyes and hair they have etc. We will do this sometimes if they are painting/drawing an animal, their home etc. It's amazing what they can do if they are made to think about it. Sometimes parents say that their child has not done this painting, as though we have held their hand with the paint brush-we don't. We just make them think about what they are doing.
I think a combination of the two gives the children freedom to use their own imagination and also some guidance.
Hope this helps.
Linda
jaime
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Posted 25 July 2003 - 11:13 PM
Here is a resume of a story I heard a while ago - Jamie was excited to be starting school there would be lots of exciting things for him to learn. He loved learning and exploring; he had done a lot of that at home and playgroup and was looking forward to all the new things there would be for him to do. On the first day the teacher said 'I want you to draw a picture'. 'Great' thought Jamie, he loved drawing swirly, whirly pictures with lots of colour. He picked up a crayon - "Wait," said the teacher, " I haven't told you what we are going to draw. We are going to draw a garden with a big tree with a brown trunk and lots of green leaves. There is a blue sky and yellow sun and lots of flowers. You may begin." So Jamie drew the picture. Another day the teacher said "Today we are going to use clay". "Great" thought Jamie, he had often used clay and playdough making lots of interesting shapes and animals. He started to knead his clay. "Wait" said the teacher "I haven't told you what we are going to make. Today we are going to make an elephant with four legs, a long trunk, big ears and a dangly tail". So Jamie made an elephant. And so it goes on until one day a new teacher comes into the class and says "I want you to draw a picture". Jamie waits. The teacher comes alongside Jamie and says "Why aren't you drawing". Jamie says "Because you haven't told me what to draw" The teacher says "You can draw whatever you like" So Jamie picks up his crayon and starts to draw a big tree with a brown trunk and lots of green leaves....
That story fills me with such sadness - all that imagination, stifled.
There is probably a very difficult line to draw between children's own creative/free drawing and directing them to something which is recognisable. The stage the child is at is obviously very important, so to is their preferred way of learning. In my pre-school we have some children who can make very detailed drawings and others of the same age who can barely hold a pencil - but they are very good at other things. And after all how many adults can draw a horse or lion? I am often having to guide my staff away from .."Here's one I made earlier".
We also need to know that children have some concept or idea in their minds of what it is we want them to draw - a child who lives in a flat or bungalow may not draw the conventional two-storey house and how can a child draw a sheep or ladybird if they have never seen one? And if ,after being shown the picture of a sheep and asked to draw one a child comes up with something completely different and says "Yes but this is how I think a sheep should look.".... Well who are we to differ?
That story fills me with such sadness - all that imagination, stifled.
There is probably a very difficult line to draw between children's own creative/free drawing and directing them to something which is recognisable. The stage the child is at is obviously very important, so to is their preferred way of learning. In my pre-school we have some children who can make very detailed drawings and others of the same age who can barely hold a pencil - but they are very good at other things. And after all how many adults can draw a horse or lion? I am often having to guide my staff away from .."Here's one I made earlier".
We also need to know that children have some concept or idea in their minds of what it is we want them to draw - a child who lives in a flat or bungalow may not draw the conventional two-storey house and how can a child draw a sheep or ladybird if they have never seen one? And if ,after being shown the picture of a sheep and asked to draw one a child comes up with something completely different and says "Yes but this is how I think a sheep should look.".... Well who are we to differ?
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Posted 26 July 2003 - 11:03 AM
Jan, on Jul 26 2003, 12:13 AM, said:
Here is a resume of a story I heard a while ago - Jamie was excited to be starting school there would be lots of exciting things for him to learn. He loved learning and exploring; he had done a lot of that at home and playgroup and was looking forward to all the new things there would be for him to do. On the first day the teacher said 'I want you to draw a picture'. 'Great' thought Jamie, he loved drawing swirly, whirly pictures with lots of colour. He picked up a crayon - "Wait," said the teacher, " I haven't told you what we are going to draw. We are going to draw a garden with a big tree with a brown trunk and lots of green leaves. There is a blue sky and yellow sun and lots of flowers. You may begin." So Jamie drew the picture. Another day the teacher said "Today we are going to use clay". "Great" thought Jamie, he had often used clay and playdough making lots of interesting shapes and animals. He started to knead his clay. "Wait" said the teacher "I haven't told you what we are going to make. Today we are going to make an elephant with four legs, a long trunk, big ears and a dangly tail". So Jamie made an elephant. And so it goes on until one day a new teacher comes into the class and says "I want you to draw a picture". Jamie waits. The teacher comes alongside Jamie and says "Why aren't you drawing". Jamie says "Because you haven't told me what to draw" The teacher says "You can draw whatever you like" So Jamie picks up his crayon and starts to draw a big tree with a brown trunk and lots of green leaves....
That story fills me with such sadness - all that imagination, stifled.
There is probably a very difficult line to draw between children's own creative/free drawing and directing them to something which is recognisable. The stage the child is at is obviously very important, so to is their preferred way of learning. In my pre-school we have some children who can make very detailed drawings and others of the same age who can barely hold a pencil - but they are very good at other things. And after all how many adults can draw a horse or lion? I am often having to guide my staff away from .."Here's one I made earlier".
We also need to know that children have some concept or idea in their minds of what it is we want them to draw - a child who lives in a flat or bungalow may not draw the conventional two-storey house and how can a child draw a sheep or ladybird if they have never seen one? And if ,after being shown the picture of a sheep and asked to draw one a child comes up with something completely different and says "Yes but this is how I think a sheep should look.".... Well who are we to differ?
That story fills me with such sadness - all that imagination, stifled.
There is probably a very difficult line to draw between children's own creative/free drawing and directing them to something which is recognisable. The stage the child is at is obviously very important, so to is their preferred way of learning. In my pre-school we have some children who can make very detailed drawings and others of the same age who can barely hold a pencil - but they are very good at other things. And after all how many adults can draw a horse or lion? I am often having to guide my staff away from .."Here's one I made earlier".
We also need to know that children have some concept or idea in their minds of what it is we want them to draw - a child who lives in a flat or bungalow may not draw the conventional two-storey house and how can a child draw a sheep or ladybird if they have never seen one? And if ,after being shown the picture of a sheep and asked to draw one a child comes up with something completely different and says "Yes but this is how I think a sheep should look.".... Well who are we to differ?
Thank you so much for that, I think that will get the message across to the head teacher totally, it fantastic.
thank you so much
jaime
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Posted 28 July 2003 - 08:04 PM
Hi Jan -
Just want to echo Jaime's response. That's probably the best single post I've seen since we started. Thanks!
Just want to echo Jaime's response. That's probably the best single post I've seen since we started. Thanks!
'There are no ordinary people. It is immortals whom we work with, joke with, marry, snub and exploit.'
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Posted 28 July 2003 - 11:02 PM
Jan, what a great story!! I shall bookmark that for future reference, if you don't mind!
Someone else said the word 'balance'. I think that sums it up. Just as when children are building with lego or doing a puzzle, or drawing or painting, there are times for intervention and times for staying well out of the picture. (pun intended)
One useful tool can be to sit alongside and draw or paint yourself. Pole bridging while you do so (talking about what you are doing, while you do it) can add language to the experience, and can give suggestions without them being direct suggestions. The child can take them or leave them. Eg 'Oh, I'm drawing my little girl, Karin, in our garden at home........... Here's Leo, my dog........... He has pointy ears...........I'm putting them right here, on top of his head......one, two" and so on.
I think we can often be so concerned in the end product that we forget the importance of the experience. By joining in, we can give ourselves a good reminder!
Interesting discussion, I'm enjoying it! Especially as my little girl is really getting into the art stuff now. We have paints and glue out most days. Which is a reason for another thread, hmm, I'm going to see if I can grab time to post it now...... :D
Someone else said the word 'balance'. I think that sums it up. Just as when children are building with lego or doing a puzzle, or drawing or painting, there are times for intervention and times for staying well out of the picture. (pun intended)
One useful tool can be to sit alongside and draw or paint yourself. Pole bridging while you do so (talking about what you are doing, while you do it) can add language to the experience, and can give suggestions without them being direct suggestions. The child can take them or leave them. Eg 'Oh, I'm drawing my little girl, Karin, in our garden at home........... Here's Leo, my dog........... He has pointy ears...........I'm putting them right here, on top of his head......one, two" and so on.
I think we can often be so concerned in the end product that we forget the importance of the experience. By joining in, we can give ourselves a good reminder!
Interesting discussion, I'm enjoying it! Especially as my little girl is really getting into the art stuff now. We have paints and glue out most days. Which is a reason for another thread, hmm, I'm going to see if I can grab time to post it now...... :D
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Posted 29 July 2003 - 06:58 PM
Nicola Call, on Jul 29 2003, 12:02 AM, said:
Jan, what a great story!! I shall bookmark that for future reference, if you don't mind!
Someone else said the word 'balance'. I think that sums it up. Just as when children are building with lego or doing a puzzle, or drawing or painting, there are times for intervention and times for staying well out of the picture. (pun intended)
One useful tool can be to sit alongside and draw or paint yourself. Pole bridging while you do so (talking about what you are doing, while you do it) can add language to the experience, and can give suggestions without them being direct suggestions. The child can take them or leave them. Eg 'Oh, I'm drawing my little girl, Karin, in our garden at home........... Here's Leo, my dog........... He has pointy ears...........I'm putting them right here, on top of his head......one, two" and so on.
I think we can often be so concerned in the end product that we forget the importance of the experience. By joining in, we can give ourselves a good reminder!
Interesting discussion, I'm enjoying it! Especially as my little girl is really getting into the art stuff now. We have paints and glue out most days. Which is a reason for another thread, hmm, I'm going to see if I can grab time to post it now...... :D
Someone else said the word 'balance'. I think that sums it up. Just as when children are building with lego or doing a puzzle, or drawing or painting, there are times for intervention and times for staying well out of the picture. (pun intended)
One useful tool can be to sit alongside and draw or paint yourself. Pole bridging while you do so (talking about what you are doing, while you do it) can add language to the experience, and can give suggestions without them being direct suggestions. The child can take them or leave them. Eg 'Oh, I'm drawing my little girl, Karin, in our garden at home........... Here's Leo, my dog........... He has pointy ears...........I'm putting them right here, on top of his head......one, two" and so on.
I think we can often be so concerned in the end product that we forget the importance of the experience. By joining in, we can give ourselves a good reminder!
Interesting discussion, I'm enjoying it! Especially as my little girl is really getting into the art stuff now. We have paints and glue out most days. Which is a reason for another thread, hmm, I'm going to see if I can grab time to post it now...... :D
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Posted 25 November 2003 - 08:49 PM
Jan! your story is so true. Think I will have to copy it for my Practitioners. It shows exactly why children have to have opportunities to try for themselves! I do think there is a place for both but having just got rid of the templates, I am encouraging "all their own work"
Chris ( who cant draw :D to save herself!)
Chris ( who cant draw :D to save herself!)
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Posted 25 November 2003 - 09:09 PM
Wha a fantastic and sad story, ut oh so true in so many palces. But let us unite and end it, well at least show that there are other ways of doing things.
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